Drop the Roger crap??

pilotsav27

New Member
So my CFII that Im currently using says that under no circumstance should I say Roger. Occasionally, I do say it. Is that bad? If so, why do I constantly hear center and other professional pilots use the term? Is it acceptable? If so, why is my instructor so against it? I've tried to get him to explain but he insists its not to be used and that is the extent of his explanation.
 
So my CFII that Im currently using says that under no circumstance should I say Roger. Occasionally, I do say it. Is that bad? If so, why do I constantly hear center and other professional pilots use the term? Is it acceptable? If so, why is my instructor so against it? I've tried to get him to explain but he insists its not to be used and that is the extent of his explanation.
He is wrong

check the pilot controller glossary for the correct usage, but there are lots of times roger is the correct response.

By the same token, there are lots of times when roger is very not appropriate
Pilot Controller Glossary said:
ROGER- I have received all of your last transmission. It should not be used to answer a question requiring a yes or a no answer.
(See AFFIRMATIVE.)
 
He is wrong

check the pilot controller glossary for the correct usage, but there are lots of times roger is the correct response.

By the same token, there are lots of times when roger is very not appropriate

It's a great word that has its time and place. I use it (properly) often.
 
Nice bumblebee!! I needed a laugh...Im sitting here at the airport waiting on a crew to leave. They'll be here til atleast 1am EDT. Then lock up and head home. Back to work at 9am. Atleast I managed an hour of night flying to get my currency back while waiting on them.
 
Why is your instructor such an angry person? lol

Funny you should mention that! He has ran a lot of students off from what I hear. He has a very unique personality. He has smacked many students with a ruler while in the airplane! Thats just the way he is and I've gotten used to it. I think it actually makes me perform a little better knowing that he will get a little "upset" if I make a boo boo. Plus he has high expectations of me (I have them for myself as well), and I think he is trying to push me to be better. I have no problem with being pushed, but sometimes it can be a little overboard!
 
if your instructor is not willing to explain things to you to your satisfaction, then you should ask (at the appropriate time) him to do so.

There is a time and place for explination. Asking for it during the landing flare may not be the best time...

However, there could be a communication barrier. Explain that you are looking for an example of the proper usage of Roger and Wilco and what they mean, referring to the Pilot Controller Glossary.

If you get the same response as before, bring another instructor into the discussion.
 
Before the diatribes on stuff, and someone will post some AIM crap and some stuff from the Air Traffic handbook, I'll throw this out there.

Your CFII wants you to learn to communicate without saying it, do it.

Now, that being said, I use "Roger", "Affirm", "Wilco" and "Charlie, Charlie" under certain circumstances.

In the states, I almost never used any of those terms, as most stuff you discuss requires a full readback (even in NYC airspace - yes, I'm that guy if they were giving me a clearance that I didn't recognize).

Things like "Position and Hold", altitude and heading readbacks, you really want to get the readback, and you understanding the instructions out in the open.

When you get bogged down in a communication break down ("SpamCan123, recleared direct Taylor, direct Docampo, I95 to five0" "SpamCan123, recleared direct Taylor, direct Docampo, I95 to five0? Correct?" then the controller repeats it, then you repeat it then they repeat it.), just say "Roger", "Affirrm"

If you are flying in regions that are not the US or you're using HF, sometimes that's all you can get across that you understand.

So there. My un-supported position on the use of "Roger".
 
Funny you should mention that! He has ran a lot of students off from what I hear. He has a very unique personality. He has smacked many students with a ruler while in the airplane! Thats just the way he is and I've gotten used to it. I think it actually makes me perform a little better knowing that he will get a little "upset" if I make a boo boo. Plus he has high expectations of me (I have them for myself as well), and I think he is trying to push me to be better. I have no problem with being pushed, but sometimes it can be a little overboard!

pushed with a ruler is NOT appropriate.
 
Funny you should mention that! He has ran a lot of students off from what I hear. He has a very unique personality. He has smacked many students with a ruler while in the airplane! Thats just the way he is and I've gotten used to it. I think it actually makes me perform a little better knowing that he will get a little "upset" if I make a boo boo. Plus he has high expectations of me (I have them for myself as well), and I think he is trying to push me to be better. I have no problem with being pushed, but sometimes it can be a little overboard!
well tell him if he is going to physically assault students that he should at least be right, and provide a valid reason for Doing or not doing something.

I can push a student hard just by pointing wordlessly at the altimeter while he blasts through an assigned altitude, or asking "so, where the hell are you?", or saying the words "Busted checkride" as he thinks he nailed it.
 
Funny you should mention that! He has ran a lot of students off from what I hear. He has a very unique personality. He has smacked many students with a ruler while in the airplane! Thats just the way he is and I've gotten used to it. I think it actually makes me perform a little better knowing that he will get a little "upset" if I make a boo boo. Plus he has high expectations of me (I have them for myself as well), and I think he is trying to push me to be better. I have no problem with being pushed, but sometimes it can be a little overboard!

You are a rare student to put up with that then. But if you are learning to your maximum then that is what is important.
 
If so, why is my instructor so against it? I've tried to get him to explain but he insists its not to be used and that is the extent of his explanation.

I sympathize with him to some degree. Many people sprinkle their transmissions with "roger" just like they do with "um"; excessively and to no purpose.

If you read back an instruction, like "Turn left heading 270", it's wasteful to say "Roger, left 270". The "Roger" is worthless, but that's what people do. Likewise, if the controller asks if you have the ATIS and you say "Roger", you haven't answered his question, but that's what people do.

It's not a bad training procedure to forbid the use of the word and then reintroduce it later in appropriate circumstances.
 
Yeah, your instructor is on crack. That said, pretty much the only time I use "roger" is when a controller is insistent upon a positive response to an informational call, like giving an altimeter setting.
 
Yeah, your instructor is on crack. That said, pretty much the only time I use "roger" is when a controller is insistent upon a positive response to an informational call, like giving an altimeter setting.

That's when I say it! He insists I repeat the altimeter setting back to them which I consider good practice so that no error is made, but if it's busy on the freq. I sometimes reply with Roger. DAMN ME TO HELL FOR IT??
 
That's when I say it! He insists I repeat the altimeter setting back to them which I consider good practice so that no error is made, but if it's busy on the freq. I sometimes reply with Roger. DAMN ME TO HELL FOR IT??
I repeat the altimeter setting as that is actually important. But things like "give that request to the next controller" or "light turb reported ahead of you"

Roger is the appropriate response, and all you need to say.
 
That's when I say it! He insists I repeat the altimeter setting back to them which I consider good practice so that no error is made, but if it's busy on the freq. I sometimes reply with Roger. DAMN ME TO HELL FOR IT??

sounds good to me
 
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