You guys win.

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Seggy said:
Once again, if someone is at a viewpoint that can decimate my career (and yours), there comes a point, where internet niceties are thrown out the window.
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So you want to educate and influence people and garner their support for your cause... OK. But you are doing just the opposite. You are pissing people off. Even those who might support you. You are diminishing support for your cause. That's not just ironic, but tragic. Take a deep breath. You can't influence a person's mind until you correctly influence a person's emotions.
And always remember the first rule of holes: 1. When you are in one... STOP DIGGING!
 
dasleben said:
Because that's how you get people to support your cause. Being angry and condescending actually does the opposite of what you think.
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I disagree.

You can be as nice as you want with me, but you still won't convince me that Middle East Carriers and NAI aren't a threat to my career. The people I was angry and condescending towards in the other thread probably feel the same, but in opposite manner based on the viewpoints.
 
Seggy said:
I disagree.

You can be as nice as you want with me, but you still won't convince me that Middle East Carriers and NAI aren't a threat to my career. The people I was angry and condescending towards in the other thread probably feel the same, but in opposite manner based on the viewpoints.
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Well you'll rarely convince people that don't want to be convinced that this is the case. Your odds of success get within millionths of zero when you can't hold the discussion in a civil manner (and take the high road). We're all guilty, but usually it's just as easy as a step back (I know I'm guilty, for example).

You also have to realize that there is a lot of rhetoric and "bending of numbers" from both sides. There's 3 sides: your side, their side, and the truth.

Any good skeptic will listen to both sides of the argument before forming their opinion.
 
Seggy said:
I have a contract that determines what the outcome will be in my interaction with crew scheduling.
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Yeah but if you yell at them, curse at them, etc., you can bet your butt that it's a lot harder for an ALPA rep to defend (especially with tapes).
Even if you're right.
 
Crop Duster said:
So you want to educate and influence people and garner their support for your cause... OK. But you are doing just the opposite. You are pissing people off. Even those who might support you. You are diminishing support for your cause. That's not just ironic, but tragic. Take a deep breath. You can't influence a person's mind until you correctly influence a person's emotions.
And always remember the first rule of holes: 1. When you are in one... STOP DIGGING!
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I'm not in any sort of hole.

I would hope folks on here would be able to see the need for a very aggressive stance on a topic that can decimate a lot of careers on here.

If folks can't, hopefully they will.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Yeah but if you yell at them, curse at them, etc., you can bet your butt that it's a lot harder for an ALPA rep to defend (especially with tapes).
Even if you're right.
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A scheduling issue, while it can suck, will still allow you to remain employed. An issue such as NAI or the Middle East Carriers won't.
 
Seggy said:
I have a contract that determines what the outcome will be in my interaction with crew scheduling.
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You know what the basis of my question was, and it wasn't about your contract. It was about how to effectively communicate with people.

There's actually a great example, right there: You sidestepped the argument rather than engage it. It does absolutely nothing to help your cause, and everything to hurt it (your audience just rolls their eyes).
 
dasleben said:
You know what the basis of my question was, and it wasn't about your contract. It was about how to get effectively communicate with people.

There's actually a great example, right there: You sidestepped the argument rather than engage it. It does absolutely nothing to help your cause, and everything to hurt it (your audience just rolls their eyes).
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Don't assume.

I know my contract and know if I have an issue there is contact that works for the union in scheduling that will resolve the issue. Not worth blowing my lid over something because there are 'fixers' in place.

BTW, you are talking about effectively communicating with people, sometimes a grievance committee or union official needs to blow their lid. I've had to before and it has been very effective. Of course you can't do it everyday but I've done it over serious issues and it has worked in the real world.

Yet, if I blow my lid on here over an issue that is serious, folks on here aren't differentiating. That's the issue I have.
 
And with that we are done. Maybe people will read and understand this the 2nd time !!

********

What the deuce, people?

First, it's my living room and I don't condone the tenor of this thread. If this is how we're going to speak to one another, I'm 43 years old, have run Jetcareers since 1996 and shutting it down will do wonders for my complaints about not having enough free time.

I will do this. I am not screwing around.

AT ALL.​

And this is another reminder why I never wanted kids because, at the end of the day I gotta deal with internet drama between adults that can easily be solved by just using some basic respect for one another and being a good internet citizen.

Here's the deal and everyone will abide by this and everyone that disagrees is free to find another free website to poop their diapers.

Think of it like a cockpit in aviation topics. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The FO starts blabbing on and on about politics trying to incite a political discussion, I recuse myself out of it because it's not worth the distraction.

We've had a number of decent threads derailed by people butting heads and this will end immediately.

This is not a negotiation.

I am not writing this in order to solicit suggestions.

This is a command and not the opening to a dialogue

Cut. This. CRAP.​


Ah ah ah! Before anyone hits reply… don't. Everyone knows what I want and everyone will honor it or I will be more than happy to purchase anyone a subscription or assist with the signup process at any other aviation forum.
 
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