WSJ: Airline-Pilot Shortage Arrives Ahead of Schedule

[🦈💜]

I think I just acquired STPS... as a passenger on a Horizon q400 from LAX to SJC, and the sound... oh my goodness...

I melted a little while we were taxiing. Ok, a lot..

-Fox
(I guess I just want to master beta)
@Maximillian_Jenius

 

[SeanD]

Just out of curiosity for the sake of curiosity. What would be the magic number for an acceptable 1st year wage at a regional? I know the going rate seems to average around $20-23 an hour with the 75 monthly hour guarantee which equates to blah. Horizon seems to be on the higher end of the pay spectrum at $30 an hour 1st year and we dont seem to hear about too many recruiting issues going on there.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

So if I don't take a job at a regional for "peanuts", then what do you suggest I do to "pay my mortgage"?? I'm not trying to raise any hairs on your neck....just trying to point out that if pilots were to suddenly walk away from the low paying regionals then where would they go? Unemployment line? Or start over in a whole different career field? This is what unions were supposed to accomplish right? These unions agreed to these wages. Pay will not increase simply because of a "shortage".

Many of you posting here have already said in other threads that there will always be a warm body willing to work for the low wage. So I completely disagree with those of you who say "there's only a shortage of people willing to fly for that low pay, not a shortage of pilots." There is a shortage of qualified applicants willing to work for the low pay....but guess what? There is a surplus of pilots willing to work for that wage once they meet the minimums. How do I know???

As long as enough pilots see it that way, nothing will change

 

[ScorpionStinger]

So if I don't take a job at a regional for "peanuts", then what do you suggest I do to "pay my mortgage"?? I'm not trying to raise any hairs on your neck....just trying to point out that if pilots were to suddenly walk away from the low paying regionals then where would they go? Unemployment line? Or start over in a whole different career field? This is what unions were supposed to accomplish right? These unions agreed to these wages. Pay will not increase simply because of a "shortage".

Airlines will dictate the pay....always. If you want change...become a doctor! Or start putting more pressure on your "pilot union" to do their job and fight for you.

By the way....the people who vote on the union contracts are only made up of around 10% of 1st year FOs with low pay. So they are dust in the wind when lobbying for higher starting pay.

Hey buddy, don't be so pessimistic . To answer your question YES! It's call backbone. Not a easy decision to make, but YES YES YES. Look @ XJT & Eagle pilot group. BACKBONE. Salute & Respect it!

I'll take what this union guy and the CEO of SILVER AIRWAYS said:

Captain Daniel Wells, president of the Airline Professional Association Teamsters Local 1224, who is also a 747 captain with Atlas Air and 28-year industry veteran, added “We believe this outcome should serve as a model for the rest of the regional airline industry. We do not have a “skills-gap” but rather a “pay-gap” in the airline industry. There are plenty of people in this country who could become airline pilots – and want to - it’s a great career. But with low starting wages, it is presently not a good economic decision. This agreement with Silver helps toward the realization that the best way to address our nationwide pilot shortage is by enhancing the quality of life of regional pilots and by elevating the pilot profession. A significant step in the right direction is to help our pilots earn a decent living that allows them to recoup the costs they have invested to build flight time, earn the required FAA certifications, and become the highly trained and professional commercial pilots they are. Given the positive outcome we have achieved for our pilots here, we look forward to working closely with the new leadership team at Silver Airways as they strengthen, grow and hire more pilots.”

 

[surreal1221]

So the CEO of Silver Airways said that?

Or the guy that said that is a Union Guy and CEO of Silver Airways?

Or the guy that said that is a Union Guy who is a 747 driver at Atlas AND the CEO of Silver Airways?

Man, I'm all sorts of confused...

 

[SeanD]

How much is Silver planning to start their pay at? I had to look at their current scale and It looks like only a $2 difference from year one to year two and a $3 raise to 3rd year and thats on the Saab. Not much of an incentive. "Dont worry, next year you can afford a grande coffee"

 

[surreal1221]

Also,

No one has hired myself or @Screaming_Emu ...so, by that very observation there is no shortage.

Carry-on.

 

[Matt13C]

Just out of curiosity for the sake of curiosity. What would be the magic number for an acceptable 1st year wage at a regional? I know the going rate seems to average around $20-23 an hour with the 75 monthly hour guarantee which equates to blah. Horizon seems to be on the higher end of the pay spectrum at $30 an hour 1st year and we dont seem to hear about too many recruiting issues going on there.

I stopped considering it a reasonable career choice once I realized what I was actually setting myself up for, this is what it would require:

Starting pay - 60k up to 75k by year 3 and captain starting 90k
Domicile assignment based on your location or provide a relocation allowance - The constant opening and closing of bases, without relocation allowances, necessitating crash pads makes regional life a young mans game or a life away from a family until you have the seniority to hold a preferable base.
To seal the deal, home more nights a week than I am away.

I know the second two will almost never happen, first is the most realistic and even that is a stretch to become an industry standard.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

So the CEO of Silver Airways said that?

Or the guy that said that is a Union Guy and CEO of Silver Airways?

Or the guy that said that is a Union Guy who is a 747 driver at Atlas AND the CEO of Silver Airways?

Man, I'm all sorts of confused...

Read the article @MikeD posted....

My previous post was simply a copy & past of what the union guy said...

Fine here you go:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airline-professionals-association-teamsters-local-110000785.html

CEO said... “We are very pleased that we reached a mutually beneficial agreement that recognizes the value of our pilots and the key role they play at Silver, while at the same time ensuring that our company can operate successfully and continue to grow and expand. Achieving these goals is an outcome that will not only allow us to secure and better our pilots’ jobs, it will create more advancement opportunity enabling our pilots to gain the experience needed to quickly advance in their careers as professional aviators, both here and throughout the industry. We are fortunate to have very skilled pilots here at Silver, and we hope that they will make a career with us. We believe that our new agreement with the Union will satisfy all of our pilots regardless of their future plans,” said Silver Airways President and CEO Dave Pflieger. “I would like to thank Captain Daniel Wells, Captain Richard Green, the Teamsters, and our pilot leadership team here at Silver for their incredible hard work and dedication throughout our ground-breaking discussions. I firmly believe that we have achieved a unique win-win agreement that will strengthen the wages and quality of life of our pilots while ensuring our ability to grow and become a successful new, next generation regional airline.”


P.s. Granted nobody knows the detail. Could be hog-wash. Or a decent contract. Damning talk if its a hogwash raise in pay or QOL though.

 

[surreal1221]

Okay.

Gotta work on your copy and paste man, was quite confusing.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Okay.

Gotta work on your copy and paste man, was quite confusing.

Sir, with all due respect (no offense intended man).... Don't act dumb.

How can the Union Guy also be the CEO of Silver Airways, while also working for an other airline (Atlas)?

Just read the article so your not confused. The post said:

Captain Daniel Wells, president of the Airline Professional Association Teamsters Local 1224, who is also a 747 captain with Atlas Air and 28-year industry veteran, added... "


Peace and love dude.

 

[surreal1221]

Got it...lol

 

[Polar742]

Here's an example. If the pay and benefits weren't a barrier to entry (read: higher and more) and the average regional pilot had a reasonable chance to move forward to the majors in a short amount of time, you'd pull all sorts of folks out of the woodwork into the profession.

Keep in mind, there are guys like @fly22, @drunkenbeagle and even @CLR4ILS that never entered the pilot labor pool that would dive in for the right numbers. Hell, if you could start at $80K in the regionals with decent working conditions and be confident that you'll be in the high $100's or early $200's in a few years at the majors (not unreasonable), hell, we could probably even get @MikeD fitted for a double-breasted coat and a hat.

The problem with the above though, is there is a very small amount of currently qualified experienced pilots in the grand scheme.

Once the guys with thousands of hours in 121 move up, and others experienced but waiting for cash and days off get soaked up, how do we magic experienced pilots?

Or do we go with ab initio?

 

[drunkenbeagle]

The problem with the above though, is there is a very small amount of currently qualified experienced pilots in the grand scheme.

Once the guys with thousands of hours in 121 move up, and others experienced but waiting for cash and days off get soaked up, how do we magic experienced pilots?

Or do we go with ab initio?

I know a bunch of folks with thousands of hours, much of it jet time, that are still on the sidelines.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Here's an example. If the pay and benefits weren't a barrier to entry (read: higher and more) and the average regional pilot had a reasonable chance to move forward to the majors in a short amount of time, you'd pull all sorts of folks out of the woodwork into the profession.

Keep in mind, there are guys like @fly22, @drunkenbeagle and even @CLR4ILS that never entered the pilot labor pool that would dive in for the right numbers. Hell, if you could start at $80K in the regionals with decent working conditions and be confident that you'll be in the high $100's or early $200's in a few years at the majors (not unreasonable), hell, we could probably even get @MikeD fitted for a double-breasted coat and a hat.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Pay enough and you could attract people from every which direction.

... but a shortage of willing applicants at present compensation? I'm happy to call it a shortage at present terms because I know it means for the first time in a long time new airline pilots won't come so damned cheap.

It's a shortage of suckers is what it is. And that means the airlines won't be able to keep lowballing us anymore... And HERE'S TO THAT!

 

[Polar742]

I know a bunch of folks with thousands of hours, much of it jet time, that are still on the sidelines.

I understand that.

Qualify "a bunch". Hundreds? Thousands? It's an ongoing process. And the longer folks don't fly, the harder it is to get them up to speed.

But once those people are absorbed back, once the labor market meets their price, where does the next crop come from? Most avenues of gaining experience are dying up, save a few pilot factories and some charter work.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Pay enough and you could attract people from every which direction.

... but a shortage of willing applicants at present compensation? I'm happy to call it a shortage at present terms because I know it means for the first time in a long time new airline pilots won't come so damned cheap.

It's a shortage of suckers is what it is. And that means the airlines won't be able to keep lowballing us anymore... And HERE'S TO THAT!

I think we all agree It is the generalization of the term "Pilot Shortage" which is the issue at hand. It's a recruiting tool used for decades.

The term has always been synonymous with recruiting bewildered victims (generally youths with a dream to fly one day for a Delta, United, American, regardless the cost, "I wanna fly a JET, no matter the cost I'll be flying a JET, and will make money later etc). The drum roll of Pilot Shortage lured them into the low paying regional ranks quickly. With the promise of getting into the "MAJORS" quickly....

The "Shortage" drum roll only recruit folks into the dream (there is a JET job waiting for you).

P.s. Remember the nursing shortage drum roll? Remember now many youths who didn't want to be a nurse started jumping head first into Nursing Programs nationwide for that $55-$65K salary? New York City Colleges/Universities (for example) are saturated with nursing candidate so much so that the program requirements have skyrocketed now that staffing needs are being met. The pay was worth it.

 

[Firebird2XC]

... and now I look forward to the times when the high cost of becoming an ATP certified pilot becomes worthwhile because compensation for a starting position is above $50,000 and upward.

$24,000 a year to start in a 76 seat jet? Whut?

 

[pete2800]

Just out of curiosity for the sake of curiosity. What would be the magic number for an acceptable 1st year wage at a regional? I know the going rate seems to average around $20-23 an hour with the 75 monthly hour guarantee which equates to blah. Horizon seems to be on the higher end of the pay spectrum at $30 an hour 1st year and we dont seem to hear about too many recruiting issues going on there.

There are issues here as well... information from a person who conducts interviews is that only about 50% of people who are scheduled to interview actually show up.


As far as acceptable first year pay, it depends on where you live. In the Puget Sound area, you'd need close to 60k in order to be in a decent situation. More if you have kids.

 

[Roger Roger]

I think I just acquired STPS... as a passenger on a Horizon q400 from LAX to SJC, and the sound... oh my goodness...

I melted a little while we were taxiing. Ok, a lot..

-Fox
(I guess I just want to master beta)
@Maximillian_Jenius

You lose at beta if you are driving a 207 or a Pratt van. Nothing like hitting that sweet spot in beta while taxiing 900 single-shaft horsepower right past the competition's parking spots.