Wow... United and US Airways to Merge

[meyers9163]

You know with all the struggles and potentials for consolidation in the news lately, I wonder how the upstart air taxi companies like DayJet are doing, or for that matter, Eclipse, who manufactures the 500's.

I dont know anything about those.... but first thing would be are they fuel efficient and then secondly are people paying actually what the service is worth? If so I bet they are alright.... But too many people pay far too little for their airfare.... I mean hell even myself and my lady going to Cancun in June is going to cost me a little. For a little more my cousins are going for nearly the same (and i work at an airline wtf). All I am paying is international fees.... think i'm kidding? not at all... its messed up!

 

[fly4food84]

2008 is going to be truly Insane. I can't keep up with these "mergers" and bankruptcies.

 

[WacoFan]

Next thing you know there will be one oil/gas company "ExxonMobileChevronShellBPSunoco" and gas will be $100.00/gallon. The government having a say in this sort of thing is good for consumers in general.

Tried that already - it was called Standard Oil, which belonged to JD Rockefeller. Teddy Roosevelt's administration broke up the monopoly (they controlled an insane amount of the oil - like 80%. The company was split into several regional companies - Standard of New Jersey (became Exxon), Standard of Indiana (became Mobile or Amoco - can't remember), Continental Oil Company (Connoco), Standard of California (SoCal - became Chevron), and a couple others. All of those companies used to represent one company - Standard Oil. That is where the Rockefeller money came from.

 

[meyers9163]

Tried that already - it was called Standard Oil, which belonged to JD Rockefeller. Teddy Roosevelt's administration broke up the monopoly (they controlled an insane amount of the oil - like 80%. The company was split into several regional companies - Standard of New Jersey (became Exxon), Standard of Indiana (became Mobile or Amoco - can't remember), Continental Oil Company (Connoco), Standard of California (SoCal - became Chevron), and a couple others. All of those companies used to represent one company - Standard Oil. That is where the Rockefeller money came from.

The good ole history of the oil companies!

 

[Velocipede]

As long as PCL is posting, there's not much more that I can add.

If I were UAL/AWA pilots, I'd petition for a representation election the day this is announced. At that point, USAPA becomes the answer to a trivia question.

 

[wheelsup]

Tried that already - it was called Standard Oil, which belonged to JD Rockefeller. Teddy Roosevelt's administration broke up the monopoly (they controlled an insane amount of the oil - like 80%. The company was split into several regional companies - Standard of New Jersey (became Exxon), Standard of Indiana (became Mobile or Amoco - can't remember), Continental Oil Company (Connoco), Standard of California (SoCal - became Chevron), and a couple others. All of those companies used to represent one company - Standard Oil. That is where the Rockefeller money came from.

That was my point . The government watches out for consumers, and won't allow one big airline or even just a few.

 

[WacoFan]

That was my point . The government watches out for consumers, and won't allow one big airline or even just a few.

Yes - I know. Interesting thing hapened though...JD Rockefeller was the majority shareholder of Stadard Oil. When they broke the company up (Actually, it was a Trust - the Standard Oil Trust), they created all of these smaller companies - and JD got stock, proportional to his ownership in each of them. When they each started trading, his wealth literally doubled. Kind of like the Mother of all Stock Splits.

Also, even though Teddy dismantled the Standard Oil, they are getting back together - Exxon/Mobile, etc.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

And why would US Airways be so stupid as to try to undertake a new merger when they are nowhere near close to realizing the synergies they thought they'd see from the first one?

Doogie isn't interested in synergies. Synergies benefit the shareholder, and he's not concerned about that. He's concerned about his own ego. He's a megalomaniac. He won't stop merging until he's CEO of the world's biggest airline. If synergies never materialize and the investors get screwed, that's not really his concern.

At that point, USAPA becomes the answer to a trivia question.

And what a glorious day that will be!

 

[SmitteyB]

Of course you'd be interested, because you don't like the fact that RAH flies 170/175's. We already have 170's in service for UAL and 175's for Airways. I doubt any scope would change.

Airdale- I don't like that RAH flies the 170/175 either. I think it is a mainline airplane that belongs no where near a regional. I think it has taken mainline jobs, just like the RJ and Q400 has.

But....


I don't want to see good pilots lose their jobs.

 

[kellwolf]

Doogie isn't interested in synergies. Synergies benefit the shareholder, and he's not concerned about that. He's concerned about his own ego. He's a megalomaniac. He won't stop merging until he's CEO of the world's biggest airline. If synergies never materialize and the investors get screwed, that's not really his concern.

Today, US Airways, tomorrow.....THE WORLD! MWUHAHAHAHA!

<cue creepy castle and music>

 

[WacoFan]

And what a glorious day that will be!

I think you should start shopping for a new avatar...if this deal happens USAPA is toast.

Seriously though...does anyone here see a UAL/USAir merger working out well? AWA and USAir are still not "merged" and the pilot groups hate each other. What is going to happen now...with three distinct groups? Also...USAPA couldn't have come at a better time - piss off ALPA two weeks before you are going to merge and become ALPA again...exceptional timing. Didn't the east guys read the news? Consolidation talk has been rampant for months, and conventional wisdom says that if USAir consolidated it would be with an ALPA carrier. I am not sure a lot of thought went into USAPA. How much did the east pilots waste on USAPA - set up, legal, vote? What punitive action can United ALPA take in the SLI process. Can they single out USAPA east guys and take care of west? This will be incredibly interesting.

 

[Airdale]

We're all going to be stuck at a Regional for possibly the next 5 years or more after Merger-mania goes away and the dust settles from a crappy economy. I hope the mainline guys keep us Regional pilots in mind when they are negotiating their "scope". Because if they put the axe to thousands of Regional pilot jobs, than we're all on the street with no where to go. There will be such a huge surplus of pilots on the street that literally thousands of careers will be damaged. It sounds easy to say "Let mainline get their scope back" , but that will be the end to thousands of careers. There wouldn't be enough mainline jobs to bring half of the pilots on the street back to work. It would effect everyone at a Regional. Think about it

 

[KLB]

If the mainline pilots take the flying back from the regionals, Seggy, FlyinChicaga, and the like get an opportunity to move up to cover all of the new flying. The only rub is that they will be competing for these jobs with all of the pilots from the companies that have gone under lately. It wouldn't happen over night though. IMO

 

[BobDDuck]

Dave, if the majors "take scope back" where do you think all those pilots that are needed to fill the new planes are going to come from? They are going to be the senior guys on your seniority list. They'll move on and you'll move up. That's how it's supposed to work.

I would seriously love to see Airways knock the scope back down to 70 seats. Hell, I'd like to see it back down to 50 seats. Does that mean that you (and maybe us) and several other companies are going to either have to remove seats or ground planes? Yep. Does it mean you may lose your job? It could. But that's the cost of doing business when you don't own your flying.

 

[WestIndian425]

I dont know anything about those.... but first thing would be are they fuel efficient and then secondly are people paying actually what the service is worth? If so I bet they are alright.... But too many people pay far too little for their airfare.... I mean hell even myself and my lady going to Cancun in June is going to cost me a little. For a little more my cousins are going for nearly the same (and i work at an airline wtf). All I am paying is international fees.... think i'm kidding? not at all... its messed up!

That is messed up! I guess with the falling dollar and the competing for "market share" (that doesn't mean profits), you'll find crazy stuff like that. So in other words, most people pay the taxes, or just above. No wonder Spirit has thest $8, $.99, and other crazy fares! :crazy:

Today, US Airways, tomorrow.....THE WORLD! MWUHAHAHAHA!

<cue creepy castle and music>

Pinky and the Brain...

 

[Velocipede]

Bob is right. IF (and that's a BIG if) the mainliners ever managed to get their scope back, all those RJ drivers would be working for mainline carriers. Not as Captains, but still employed. Someone has to drive the planes.

 

[Airdale]

Bob is right. IF (and that's a BIG if) the mainliners ever managed to get their scope back, all those RJ drivers would be working for mainline carriers. Not as Captains, but still employed. Someone has to drive the planes.

IF that were the case, I'd be all for it. I just don't see it going down like that, IF they did tighten the scope clauses. If they had some sort of agreement to hire the RJ guys flying those birds onto the mainline carrier, I'd literally be a happy pig in muddy poo. I picture it going more like "Yeah, we want those aircraft back and let the company deal with hiring pilots for them". That would create more jobs at mainline yes, but the number of pilots that would be out of work would leave half of them still on the street. I just don't want to wish ill fate on my own job. I actually work for a decent company that just happens to have a base at home which just happens to allow me the opportunity to sit reserve and make some side cash with my father in law. What more could a guy ask for!?

It would be awesome if mainline pilots said bring the aircraft and those pilots up to their company, but thats a far far fetched dream. Have an Airways seniority # and be based in PHL....yeah!

 

[BobDDuck]

It doesn't work that way. Hence the whole, if you don't own your flying you ain't ####.

So what, you don't go with the airplane. In fact, ask the Mid Titanic guys about that (that's how you GOT those planes in the first place). A 175 flown at a mainline carrier is going to require the same number of pilots as it does at a regional. In fact, it may require a few more because they have better work rules and staffing models then the regionals do.

So there wouldn't be a bunch of pilots on the street. Your captains would move up into FO slots (and have to start all over) and you would move up to captain. That's the way it works. You can't magically not want it to happen because you'd eventually have to start over.

Hell, I fly for a company that IS owned by a mainline carrier and sort of do own our own flying and WE can't even get mainline numbers.

 

[Airdale]

It doesn't work that way. Hence the whole, if you don't own your flying you ain't ####.

So what, you don't go with the airplane. In fact, ask the Mid Titanic guys about that (that's how you GOT those planes in the first place). A 175 flown at a mainline carrier is going to require the same number of pilots as it does at a regional. In fact, it may require a few more because they have better work rules and staffing models then the regionals do.

So there wouldn't be a bunch of pilots on the street. Your captains would move up into FO slots (and have to start all over) and you would move up to captain. That's the way it works. You can't magically not want it to happen because you'd eventually have to start over.

Hell, I fly for a company that IS owned by a mainline carrier and sort of do own our own flying and WE can't even get mainline numbers.

Well thats my point. Is that, yeah it would eventually be a great thing, but the number of pilots and their families affected would be great as well. In a years time, I wouldn't have the time requirements to get hired at mainline. So those of us that are trying to build that time would in turn lose our jobs unless our company brought on smaller airplanes. Which I really wouldn't care. I didn't come here to fly a particular aircraft. If that were the case, I'd of went overseas and flown the big metal for what they are begging for.

If Captains moved up to mainline as FO's, than how would us FO's become Captains on equipment that needs to be sold? This is confusing.

 

[KLB]

Your company would have to be able to adapt and serve whatever needs the mainline's needs. If that means buying smaller and more efficient aircraft to serve those needs...so be it.

I believe there will be a drastic change in the role that the regional airline plays. It's just to many companies serving the same markets for one merged mainline. They can just put a larger aircraft on those routes and save money. Scope is not going to allow any larger aircraft to go to the regional. So the mainline guys will get the flying and the regionals will go back to the commuter role doing short trips feeding the hubs rather than some of the domestic type flights.

It's actually really good for the industry if you look at the big picture.