WN Reaches New TA

[GroundPilot]

@Spatcher Yup 25% would be to match the top four for B6. Realistically... I really doubt we will get that. Maybe 3-7% now and maybe 10-15% if the acquisition goes through (I think management/accounting will have to increase the scale a lot if they don't want Spirit to fight to have a union)

20 year pay with longevity for B6 is 140k whereas the top four have that in about 7-9? years

 

[gopherdx]

They are going to have to get closer than 25% if they want to retain people, referring to B6 and NK here. B6 current top out is within 25% of the big 4.Spirit is so far behind the other carriers that are similar in fleet size. LCC and ULCC are going to have to do better than that. They lose so much talent based on their pay now including people who don't even apply because of the pay compared to COL. B6 I think is negotiating now, Spirit is supposed to this year, on that we will see... the looming acquisition doesn't give high hopes for a contract negotiation.
If they do become one, there is no reason they shouldn't see a contract similar to the mainlines, Alaska can do it. the merged airline would be well over 400 aircraft. The contract and pay should reflect that.

So far B6 has only lost approx 3 dispatchers to the big 3 and those were brand new who were not from or had any interest in living in the tri-state area

 

[MountainsOrBeach]

Dispatchers who quote Lebowski are encouraged to apply to Delta. Bonus if you know "Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas," I'd refer you.

Yes, they drug test me frequently.

We can't stop here, this is bat country!

Too weird to live, too rare to die…

 

[Shock-Diamonds]

So far B6 has only lost approx 3 dispatchers to the big 3 and those were brand new who were not from or had any interest in living in the tri-state area

Well that’s kinda the nature of our business. 75%+ of dispatchers aren’t from the few states where the big jobs are, so the NY area is hard to draw big interest when the salary doesn’t provide much financial stability for the area (especially the starting pay). Last year JetBlue seemed to pay about 90% of legacy pay and hopefully they will soon get back to that. It seems right that they would at least match Alaska.

 

[gopherdx]

Well that’s kinda the nature of our business. 75%+ of dispatchers aren’t from the few states where the big jobs are, so the NY area is hard to draw big interest when the salary doesn’t provide much financial stability for the area (especially the starting pay). Last year JetBlue seemed to pay about 90% of legacy pay and hopefully they will soon get back to that. It seems right that they would at least match Alaska.

True, and I agree with everything you said. You’d be surprised though as there have been a lot who came to JetBlue because of the location. The tri-state area gets a lot of slack but it’s arguably one of the best places to live in the country, despite the higher COL. You sorta get what you pay for, especially in the suburbs.

Based on my rough math I’ve done on my trusty abacus, this upcoming comp review will most likely bring B6 to at or very close to Alaska’s scale.

 

[LX015]

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Based on my rough math I’ve done on my trusty abacus, this upcoming comp review will most likely bring B6 to at or very close to Alaska’s scale.

That would be most awesome!

 

[GroundPilot]

So for WN is the starting confirmed at 97k, 1st year 100k?

 

[TRIGGERED]

So for WN is the starting confirmed at 97k, 1st year 100k?

98k and 100k yes. June 1st it will be 101k for training and 103k for the remainder of the first year.

 

[shutdown]

Being a dxer from a legacy carrier, SWA seems to have gotten a HUGE deal. With 1751 hours per year means they will work 130+ hours less then united and Delta, which is close to 12-16 extra days off, not to mention more pay. Great for them but I can only hope my shop gets the same deal.

AA's hours worked sets the bar. Everyone should switch to it.

Agreed AA hours are 1752 per year

Sounds like a new (scheduled, not actually worked) bar has been set. How low will the limbo bar go with whoever's next?

 

[MT]

Sounds like a new (scheduled, not actually worked) bar has been set. How low will the limbo bar go with whoever's next?

Let’s hope!

 

[RegionalDXer]

Sounds like a new (scheduled, not actually worked) bar has been set. How low will the limbo bar go with whoever's next?

I hope somewhing that is next , will be for SW to leave TWU and join PAFCA. Having SW joining the big 3 would big a boost to all of the unions.

 

[PHL_Approach]

I hope somewhing that is next , will be for SW to leave TWU and join PAFCA. Having SW joining the big 3 would big a boost to all of the unions.

I can't imagine that's happening anytime soon coming off just getting a fresh new contract. After something like 4-5 years of negotiations and yet still keeping them in, it proves the membership is loyal incredibly to the TWU.

 

[who'swho]

I hope somewhing that is next , will be for SW to leave TWU and join PAFCA. Having SW joining the big 3 would big a boost to all of the unions.

They seem to be pulling their weight based on the new scale.

 

[RegionalDXer]

I can't imagine that's happening anytime soon coming off just getting a fresh new contract. After something like 4-5 years of negotiations and yet still keeping them in, it proves the membership is loyal incredibly to the TWU.

the only reason the new TA was reached now was if they switched from TWU to PAFCA it would be completely starting over.. now they deal is done there is no threat of it being completely restarted. If SW truly wants to move away from the ULCC and closer to the big 3, SW would be much better off joing PAFCA and getting into the rotation of matching and lining up contracts with

They seem to be pulling their weight based on the new scale.

While they did vastly improve the contract, sometimes you have to make a change. SW has neglected many parts of it operation over the years and they have gotten burned recently, like at Christmas with the rampers not coming in Denver to no partner airlines to help get pax out on, to the entire Xmas situation, then multiple groups going years without contracts (DX I think took 4-5 years)… SW is still trying to run the business and get by like it did years ago when the operation is now trending to that of the big 3… SW employees have sacrificed, and if the airline wants to act like it’s a big 4, the groups need to join the big boy groups.

 

[Wonderlic]

the only reason the new TA was reached now was if they switched from TWU to PAFCA it would be completely starting over.. now they deal is done there is no threat of it being completely restarted. If SW truly wants to move away from the ULCC and closer to the big 3, SW would be much better off joing PAFCA and getting into the rotation of matching and lining up contracts with



While they did vastly improve the contract, sometimes you have to make a change. SW has neglected many parts of it operation over the years and they have gotten burned recently, like at Christmas with the rampers not coming in Denver to no partner airlines to help get pax out on, to the entire Xmas situation, then multiple groups going years without contracts (DX I think took 4-5 years)… SW is still trying to run the business and get by like it did years ago when the operation is now trending to that of the big 3… SW employees have sacrificed, and if the airline wants to act like it’s a big 4, the groups need to join the big boy groups.

I’m not understanding any of your points. SWA’s new contract is better than all of the PAFCA contracts.

And the Christmas meltdown was not caused by SWA dispatchers not being a part of PAFCA.

 

[MT]

I think @RegionalDXer thinks that for PAFCA shops to benefit that SWA needs to be PAFCA. That’s not the case. SWA be they PAFCA, TWU, or Bob’s union are still in league with the Big 3 when it comes to comparators. Delta is up next I believe, they say SWA got that, go get that. Who’s actually collecting the dues is not relevant on that part.

 

[manniax]

As has been previously stated here once before:

PAFCA does not recruit groups to join the union. They need to be approached. So if PAFCA is voted in at any shop it should be viewed as the best choice for that shop, voted in by the people who actually work there.

I'm quite confident in the ability of dispatchers currently working at WN to make the right choice of which union does the best job representing them. In the end, I'm just happy that they are unionized.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

The main reason to switch to PAFCA would be to get out from the larger union and into a union that is able to focus on the dispatch workgroup. SWA dispatch is a small workgroup compared to all of the other TWU workgroups at the airline. Time and money being devoted to the dispatch group can make other, larger TWU workgroups unhappy. Same with contract offers. If dispatch were to get a good offer, other TWU groups will want it as well so management might not agree to it and the TWU might hold up talks until all groups get the same benefits offer to that one smaller group.

The first SWA dispatch TA didnt have a signing bonus. The flight attendants are also TWU and in contract talks. SWA management wants to avoid paying a signing bonus to such a large group but if dispatch gets a signing bonus, the TWU flight attendants wont likely vote yes for a contract without one. TWU wont be able to easily justify getting dispatch a signing bonus but not flight attendants.

 

[who'swho]

the only reason the new TA was reached now was if they switched from TWU to PAFCA it would be completely starting over.. now they deal is done there is no threat of it being completely restarted. If SW truly wants to move away from the ULCC and closer to the big 3, SW would be much better off joing PAFCA and getting into the rotation of matching and lining up contracts with



While they did vastly improve the contract, sometimes you have to make a change. SW has neglected many parts of it operation over the years and they have gotten burned recently, like at Christmas with the rampers not coming in Denver to no partner airlines to help get pax out on, to the entire Xmas situation, then multiple groups going years without contracts (DX I think took 4-5 years)… SW is still trying to run the business and get by like it did years ago when the operation is now trending to that of the big 3… SW employees have sacrificed, and if the airline wants to act like it’s a big 4, the groups need to join the big boy groups.

What union you are in doesn't change how quickly you do or don't get a TA. The Company is sitting on the other side of the table at the end of the day and if they don't want to budge then it will stall negotiations. Who would be sitting down on the Union's side in negotiations if it's PAFCA? My guess is probably the same exact Dispatchers that sit down for negotiations when it's TWU.

SWA is definitely in the "big boy" group, which by the way should also include UPS. I would include FedEx but we're talking union shops.

 

[who'swho]

The main reason to switch to PAFCA would be to get out from the larger union and into a union that is able to focus on the dispatch workgroup. SWA dispatch is a small workgroup compared to all of the other TWU workgroups at the airline. Time and money being devoted to the dispatch group can make other, larger TWU workgroups unhappy. Same with contract offers. If dispatch were to get a good offer, other TWU groups will want it as well so management might not agree to it and the TWU might hold up talks until all groups get the same benefits offer to that one smaller group.

The first SWA dispatch TA didnt have a signing bonus. The flight attendants are also TWU and in contract talks. SWA management wants to avoid paying a signing bonus to such a large group but if dispatch gets a signing bonus, the TWU flight attendants wont likely vote yes for a contract without one. TWU wont be able to easily justify getting dispatch a signing bonus but not flight attendants.

I'm not familiar with TWU, since I'm no longer a member of any of their locals but I'm assuming that SWA is the largest work group in their local so they essentially get the same treatment as they would if they were PAFCA. I have no problem with PAFCA I just think every shop is different and what works for one may not work for another.