"With you"

Busta McRuffsta

The Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rolla
When I was doing my instrument training my instructor beat into my head to never use the phrase "with you" when communicating with ATC. He had a story of being on a busy frequency and a controller went off on an aviator for using it. However, I hear this phrase being used all the time when flying IFR, and no one seems to object.

He also taught me to avoid using to or for unnecessarily in transmissions, i.e. don't do this: "Departure,... is with you, 5 for 9." Instead say: "... is 5 climbing niner thousand."

Although I agree with him and think what he taught me sounds more professional, I hear pilots saying "with you" and the like all the time. While I always think of what he taught me when I hear it, I was wondering if it really matters and/or if anyone really cares?
 

Stone Cold

Well-Known Member
Do you want to be a professional, or do you want to mimic all of the other unprofessionals out there on the radio? The only time I ever hear the "with you" and that type of thing is when American pilots are flying over here on this side of the pond.

Keep it concise and professional, and use standard phraseology. It pays in the long run when you start flying in other parts of the world.
 

Bernoulli Fan

Controller
...He had a story of being on a busy frequency and a controller went off on an aviator for using it. However, I hear this phrase being used all the time when flying IFR, and no one seems to object.
Just remember you can't hear what the controller is saying (i.e. yelling to the others in the room) before he keys up the mic.

He also taught me to avoid using to or for unnecessarily in transmissions, i.e. don't do this: "Departure,... is with you, 5 for 9." Instead say: "... is 5 climbing niner thousand."
I wholeheartedly agree with this practice. Why use words that sound like numbers mixed with actual numbers?
 

Busta McRuffsta

The Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rolla
Do you want to be a professional, or do you want to mimic all of the other unprofessionals out there on the radio? The only time I ever hear the "with you" and that type of thing is when American pilots are flying over here on this side of the pond.

Keep it concise and professional, and use standard phraseology. It pays in the long run when you start flying in other parts of the world.
I do exactly as taught because I agree with him, and that's exactly how I taught all of my students. I was curious what the controllers think of said practice.
 

Stone Cold

Well-Known Member
The hardest standard phraseology over here I had trouble with was:

"Gulfstream XXX, behind landing traffic, line up and wait, behind." If you don't say the second behind, they get upset...other than that, standard phraseology has worked wonders for me over here.
 

drunkenbeagle

Gang Member
The call November blah-blah-blah, downwind, base to final 36, podunk traffic". ---

Is my pet peeve. Not only only do I not know where you are, you took 5 minutes to not tell me.
 

s60

Well-Known Member
I rarely even notice when a pilot says "with you". It doesn't bother me, but I work with some people I'm sure it bothers. Then again, it doesn't take much to bother those controllers. It's two syllables - rarely am I so busy that two syllables will be an issue, even today when I had to give what seemed like every plane I worked a reroute. On the scale of poor phraseology, I rank this well down on the list, but that's just my opinion.
 

Busta McRuffsta

The Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rolla
The hardest standard phraseology over here I had trouble with was:

"Gulfstream XXX, behind landing traffic, line up and wait, behind." If you don't say the second behind, they get upset...other than that, standard phraseology has worked wonders for me over here.
I guess that's why they call it standard. :)
 

Houston

Well-Known Member
I wish I could lay my hands on it, but I just saw a study on radio communications that echoed what several people here have said. One of the key points of the study was that the bad habits we get away with in the USA can result in serious problems outside of the USA where the controllers have a limited command of the English language.
 

TFaudree_ERAU

Mashin' dem buttons
The less you can say and still get in what's required is best. You'll thank me next time you talk to EWR approach....and so will they.
Like when that raspy voiced trucker controller says crap like "7AX (spoken 'AX', not Alpha X-ray'), 5 from VINGS, cross it at 2, cleared the approach, call Tango tower now."
 

UAL747400

Well-Known Member
Like when that raspy voiced trucker controller says crap like "7AX (spoken 'AX', not Alpha X-ray'), 5 from VINGS, cross it at 2, cleared the approach, call Tango tower now."
I always want to hear one of these guys say something like "I COMMAND YOU TO LANNND" :D
 

dasleben

That's just, like, your opinion, man
Do you want to be a professional, or do you want to mimic all of the other unprofessionals out there on the radio? The only time I ever hear the "with you" and that type of thing is when American pilots are flying over here on this side of the pond.

Keep it concise and professional, and use standard phraseology. It pays in the long run when you start flying in other parts of the world.
It's true, we do sound like a bunch of truckers over here. I even heard a NY center controller recently tell an aircraft to "Cross 40 this side of CAMRN at 14,000." So, 40 miles from CAMRN on the side Long Island is on? :D
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
Felt really bad for the tower controller in Lincoln, NE this afternoon. She had to tell this Cherokee pilot three times to read back with his full call sign.
 
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