Why wear the monkey suit?

Boris Badenov said:
I'm not even trying to change anything, damit. As I've said about 15 times so far, I'll wear whatever I'm issued (up to and including a ball gag, if the price is right). I'm just pointing out that dressing like an old seadog from the Napoleonic Wars A) Serves no rational purpose whatsoever and B) Makes me, myself feel a bit ridiculous at times.
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If you weren't trying to change it, you wouldn't be getting so worked up about it.

And again, in the tradition of Descartes, Spinoza, and Kant, the rational choice is a flight suit. It retains the easily-identifiable uniform aspect some seem to deem so terribly necessary in order to make sure their Authoritay is Respekted, but is comfortable, easy to care for, and has LOTS OF POCKETS for SANDWICHES AND SUCH.
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Um, yeah, that's not a very professional looking image.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Yeah, well then you should refuse the ride when you fall off your high horse and the medical helo comes to get you. :p
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Pretty sure they have different accepted norms for their uniforms.

This really isn't difficult:

Doctor shows up to work in a lab coat = normal and professional

Lawyer shows up to work in a lab coat = deranged and unprofessional

Come on, Boris, I know you can get this. ;)
 
Doctor shows up to work in a lab coat in 1750 = Guy is nuts, doctors don't wear white, think of the blood stains!
Ship Captain shows up to work in 1750 wearing a headset = My God there's some sort of sea monster attached to his head! Quick, kill it before it breeds!

If "accepted norms" were frozen in time, we'd all be naked as a jaybird and living in caves. I know you can get this! :D
 
Denny's:
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"Lets eat then hit Home Depot"

Twin Peaks:
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"Hot damn, another Knotty Brunette and I know it's our fifth order of nachos but… more nachos please"

(
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No one said anything about opinions. The term used was "conventional norm." Show me a part 121 airline that allows its pilots to fly in anything that would not be considered a traditional pilot uniform. There can be no doubt of what is considered normal, and what you want is not normal.

Everyone else shouldn't have to conform to your rebellious desires. And frankly, it's more than a little immature to insist upon it.
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I mean, what do you mean by traditional? White uniform shirt with epaulets and black pants? Because if so, there are plenty that don't fit the mold at all.

Virgin America's pilot uniforms certainly aren't traditional - they have epaulets - that's about the only traditional thing.
Everts Air Cargo has no uniform for their ANC crews, same with NAC as far as I know, they're both 121 airlines.
Seaborne wears shorts and boat shoes with a pilot shirt. They're 121.
Those are just the ones I can think of off of the top of my head.

Also, it's worth noting that the particular garment that covers your naked butt has zero impact on how you can drive around an airplane. I've seen sharp-dressed people who looked great and were extraordinarily professional in their mannerisms be terrible pilots, and I've seen potty-mouthed slobs wearing base-ball caps and t-shirts with beer logos on them operate airplanes with incredible precision and finesse in challenging environments with a profound level of discretion and safety. That said, I understand the need for a uniform in the passenger airline setting - it lets the people in the back know who's in charge. That's critical, especially in an emergency, but it is not accurate to say that the "normal" way to do things is the "best" way to do things. I mean, realistically, if all airline pilots wore flight suits (*shudder*) it might in fact be more easy to identify who's "da boss" during an evacuation. In the eyes of the bean-counters, marketing firms, and executives, the uniform is a useful tool to fulfill the expectations of the passengers. Pilots on jets are supposed to look a certain way to the average person, and people want their pilots to look that way. The standard pilot uniform creates the sense that "these guys know what they're doing," even if they might have no idea wtf they're doing. I would also suspect that the general appearance of aviators conjures some primal psychological instinct in humans that tends to obey people with badges, accoutrements, hats, and fancy dress in the same way that people tend to obey other authority figures.

Personally, I've got no use for these sort of embellishments - I'd prefer that folk judged one another on their actions and merits rather than on how shiny their belt-buckles or shoes, and I do my damndest to do the same - because I've been surprised and learned my lesson. Judging people by their outward appearance is a poor method for understanding whether an individual is going to be good at a particular task or successful. If anything, the inability to look beyond the outward appearance of a person or thing and focus on it's innate qualities is perhaps even more immature than questioning the requirement by society to dress a particular way.

Regardless, it's worth noting that one's personal opinion on these sorts of things doesn't really matter. I for the record, am very lucky with my uniform - I essentially wear pajamas to work every day and if it's hot, I routinely fly home part 91 in my shorts and sneakers. All that said, if you want to participate in our society (for better or for worse) you have to abide by the decisions of your corporate masters; if the company wants me to wear a pink-spandex unitard, a clown hat, and a pool floaty around my waste as a pilot uniform, I'll wear it with a smile as long as I'm employed.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Exactly. Case closed.
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That doesn't mean it's "correct" or that Boris is somehow immature for questioning it. It just means that people expect pilots to look a certain way. That isn't what closes the case - what closes the case is "uhhh, my boss told me to wear this outfit." If I had my "druthers," I'd wear carharts, a hoody, and a ball cap in cool climates, and cargo shorts or board shorts, a t-shirt, and a ball cap in warm climates. But what I want doesn't matter - I wear what I'm told. If I were running the company, it'd be different, but I'm not, so I wear what I'm told.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
If you had your way, you would wear something that you admit your customers don't want to see? Yes, that's immature and unprofessional.
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My customers would also likely prefer that the F/As wear very little to nothing and give "full-service massages".

I'm being paid for my ability and skill in aviation appliance operation, my dignity costs extra, and my integrity is not for sale.
 
I used to have facial hair while in uniform. Couple companies I worked for, including a U.S. 121 carrier, allowed it. Rabble.
 
mshunter said:
Why does law enforcement get to do it then? Serious question, with probably a good answer.
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The law allows for physical fitness requirements if being physically fit is a normal requirement of the job. You can require people to demonstrate the ability to run if a normal part of their job would be chasing criminals, or you can require someone to be able to lift a 50 lb box if lifting things to put them on shelves is a normal part of their job. Pilots sit and push buttons. Beyond being able to lift the emergency exit door, you couldn't make a legitimate argument to a judge that being physically fit is a necessity for the job.

It's not just physical fitness, either. It goes to any requirement you would want to impose. I want to use IQ testing when hiring employees, but the attorneys tell me that there's plenty of case law on the books that would make it a problem, because I couldn't demonstrate to the court that having a certain IQ is necessary in order to perform the job.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
If you had your way, you would wear something that you admit your customers don't want to see? Yes, that's immature and unprofessional.
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I would totally wear more practical and comfortable clothing if given the option. Absolutely, and I don't think that's immature or unprofessional at all - further, who made you the authority on what qualifies as immature or unprofessional behavior - prior experience? I don't think there's anything immature about trying to make your shirts last longer than a month, or the clothing you're going to have to work in be comfortable for doing that job. You're the one suggesting that they don't want to see something other than pilot uniforms. I merely suggest that they want to see pilot uniforms because it conforms to their expectations. Expectations != practical reality a lot of the time.

That being said, I actually agree with you along the lines of "that's what the customer wants, GIVE IT TO THEM!" But there are more than a few ways to do this and wearing clothing that is outmoded or otherwise obsolescent or impractical certainly isn't how I would do it. If I running my own shop, I'd certainly come up with a different uniform or dress standard than a dorky-looking stain-prone pilot-shirt. Beyond that, it's pretty silly to suggest that there is only one way for "true professional pilots" to dress out there.

You started this by effectively saying that in order to be professional and mature you have to dress a certain way, I don't believe this is correct. I posit that professionalism and maturity are both rooted in the soul of one's thoughts and actions. The expectations and perceptions of others are what is fulfilled by one's appearance. If one desires to meet those expectations one must look a certain way - but meeting the expectations of others does not a professional or mature individual make. While dressing to meet the expectations of passengers can add to the sense of professionalism at a company, simply failing to meet their expectation of appearance does not necessarily preclude maturity or professionalism in the cockpit. In essence what I'm saying is that if you stick a turd in a pretty box it's still a turd - if you have a crappy paint job on your P-51, you still have a P-51.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I've said my piece. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind.
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Allow me a Parthian shot, then. The original question was "Why wear the monkey suit"? Every answer I've heard thusfar amounts to "Because that's how it's always been". This is A) Untrue, and B) Pretty much the go-to rationale for every reactionary joker from Horemheb to Lucius III. I think remember hearing you called a progressive...well, progress!
 
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