Especailly a -23/24 with the old CJ610 turbojet engines....a loud, JP guzzling hotrod it'd be! Love it!
Why Lear and not Cessna
- Thread starter fly22
- Start date
Especailly a -23/24 with the old CJ610 turbojet engines....a loud, JP guzzling hotrod it'd be! Love it!
Yes. Well, turbofan...but I know what you meant.
We've got a CE-551 and a CE-525A on our certificate both authorized autopilot in lieu of SIC for 135.
-mini
:rawk::rawk::rawk::rawk:
400A
New Member
Just throwing this thought out there. Cutting the first layer of safety in half by looking for an airplane that can be operated single pilot smacks of poor decision making. Why spend all that money on airplane only to cut the legs out from underneath the safety net?
Go with lears, they look cooler.
Go with lears, they look cooler.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Easy answer....
$$$$
The dollar is more important than safety. Always has been, always will be.... just look at the FAA.
bdhill1979
Gone West
sounds fun
fly22
Well-Known Member
Flying one yes. I still havent talked to Mark. He was so hot to make it happen so Im not sure why he has cooled off.
Listen, Im not looking into this to cut a pilot spot or for less payroll. Im looking into it because when its not a business flight it will be for pleasure and cost need to be considered.
Is it wiserto keep with Lears or to add to the fleet C525 for personal use as well as business.
Listen, Im not looking into this to cut a pilot spot or for less payroll. Im looking into it because when its not a business flight it will be for pleasure and cost need to be considered.
Is it wiserto keep with Lears or to add to the fleet C525 for personal use as well as business.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
check the insurance prices between a 1 and a 2 pilot crew.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Straight wing.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
yeah the V Ultra can pull .75 + at altitude but it is limited by the straight wing.
The 500 series, the early ones didnt really have that much power. They kept upgrading the engines with each model.
The 500 series, the early ones didnt really have that much power. They kept upgrading the engines with each model.
Orange Anchor
New Member
The real answers will come from looking at maint costs for a varied fleet plus pilot training plus fuel costs plus insurance costs. The cost of an additional pilot, especially in these times, will be a minor factor and regardless, a second TRAINED pilot is the cheapest safety device available.
BUT.. via fltplan.com similar flight plans (KATL-KADS) puts a Citation II enroute for 2:07 and burns 2400lbs of fuel with 5 pax. A CJ will take 2:04 to haul 5 pax and will burn around 2000lbs of fuel. A Lear 45 does the same route in 1:43 and uses 2700lbs while a Lear 60 will take 2 minutes longer and use 2900lbs.
Initially, the fuel savings seem minor but if this is a standard route, for example, you put :15-20 LESS time on the Lear for each flight and thus reduced maint. And on the CJ, with winter winds you may have to stop enroute to remain legal.
So you can see a lot of factors will need to be considered before deciding on what is the 'right airplane'.
From a pilot's point of view, a Citation is a Citation is a Citation.. until you get to the X and then obviously things change. But they are simple to fly and you can expect slower speeds, lower altitudes enroute but you will also be able to get in and out of shorter runways GENERALLY. The Lears are faster, cruise higher altitudes.
But a mixed fleet will increase costs. A single fleet saves. Herb at SW has proven this.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
The real question is.... do you need another pilot? :-D
400A
New Member
I know where you going, but I will play along.
If you can afford a 5 or 6 million dollar jet, you can afford the second pilot. Unless we are going to make the argument that one pilot is more safe than two.
I think it would be pretty hard to say one pilot is more safe than two but is two safer than one?
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
What 525B were you flying?
I'm typed in the 525 and flew only the CJ3. At every flight level above FL290 to FL450 we were able to do M .737, which is Mmo if I remember correctly.
400A
New Member
Two properly trained and qualified pilots, without a doubt, yes. Just throwing someone in the right seat to run the radios and operate the gear, might as well leave the airplane on the ground. (talking jets here).
It has much more to do with the operation than the actually flying of the airplane.
Money doesn't = safety.
Exactly. Aside from the "you can afford it" argument, which is irrelevant. How is two pilots automatically safer than one?
That's possible. It's been a few years since I've been in a 3. Whether it's .73 or .7........I honestly couldn't tell you. I distinctly remember being right up on the barber pole in the cruise detent though. Several times I know the owner had us pull it back a bit from the detent.
As for fuel burn in the 3, I don't know. Probably slightly more than the 2.
If what I've heard about the 4 is true, it's going to be quite the plane. Supposed to have some "sovereign-like wing sweep", better interior, faster plane, same range as the 3 but faster. That's from a crew we ran into a few weeks ago flying a 3 that have a 4 ordered. So take it for what it's worth.
*edit*
I re-read what you quoted and see why you're confused. Swap the B and the A. In the 2 I'm in now, we're lucky to pull .66 at 410. We see more of the donut at 450 than we do the barberpole in the 525A.
-mini