Why Lear and not Cessna

[CK]

I agree with 400A. I've flown single pilot for the majority of my career (granted in relatively simple airplanes). I feel completely safe flying single pilot and will do it when we get the jet, but I still feel having two competent pilots is safer.

but you did make the claim that two pilot ops are always, regardless of the circumstances or the certification of the aircraft, safer, a claim with which a number of people seem to disagree.

Of course two ill-trained and un-qualified pilots are not any safer than one seasoned freight pilot.

Alex.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Your perogative, certainly. But I maintain that in a single pilot aircraft, it's entirely possible for a single pilot to be as safe, or even safer, than two pilots. Again, we're talking at cross purposes, and presumably with a semi-hidden agenda on both sides. It seems obvious to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the "crew is always better" side is enamoured of the idea that pilots do some incredibly difficult job and owners/managment don't understand that. It seems equally obvious to me that the "single pilot" boosters are saying simply that if the thing is certificated for single pilot ops there may possibly be a reason for that which was decided by someone with a lot more information than any of us have. The two are not incompatible. We should be on the same side on this one. I'd be the last person to argue that a 777 "only really needs" one pilot, even though it probably really only needs one most of the time. It's always a sliding scale. Consider the possibility, though, that in some circumstances the scale doesn't automatically slide towards "more safe" just because there are two dudes (or, uhm, duddettes?) staring at the gauges wondering what the hell it's doing now.

 

[PGT]

Way to take a Lear vs. Cessna argument and make it 2v1.

Why didn't a mod spin this off and make it a separate thread?

 

[SteveC]

You're not really a fair arbiter, Lloyd. 100% of the Captains you fly with want to be you. It's expected that 90% would be a little surly about it.

 

[mikecweb]

Way to take a Lear vs. Cessna argument and make it 2v1.

Why didn't a mod spin this off and make it a separate thread?

Way to contribute to either discussion....

Why is that you feel that way Alex? Why do you feel safer with two pilots. I feel safer in a Jet than a piston. I feel safer when I'm up front vs. god knows who. Alot of things may make us "feel" safer but is it really?

 

[CK]

But I maintain that in a single pilot aircraft, it's entirely possible for a single pilot to be as safe, or even safer, than two pilots.

I agree with that.

Consider the possibility, though, that in some circumstances the scale doesn't automatically slide towards "more safe" just because there are two dudes (or, uhm, duddettes?) staring at the gauges wondering what the hell it's doing now.

I agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I am a single pilot advocate and really enjoy flying alone sometimes. If we go out and buy a CJ3 next week I will want to fly it single pilot, but I will not argue with anyone who says it would be safer to fly it with a well trained, two pilot crew.

Alex.

 

[CK]

Way to contribute to either discussion....

Why is that you feel that way Alex? Why do you feel safer with two pilots. I feel safer in a Jet than a piston. I feel safer when I'm up front vs. god knows who. Alot of things may make us "feel" safer but is it really?

I'd like to think it is. Here is a decent example, although it does not have to do with safety as much as it does with me just making a mistake. I was leaving an airport under a Class B shelf a few months back in an airplane that climbs about 2000fpm. The shelf above me was 2500', as I was climbing through 2000' my friend in the right seat said "you know the class b starts at 2500". I had completely forgot about it and was planning on climbing straight to 11,500'. This was an airport I have literally been to over 100 times. I made a stupid mistake, and my "second pilot" caught it.

Now of course the second pilot does not catch every mistake and the LEX accident is a sad example of that.

Alex.

 

[PGT]

Way to contribute to either discussion....

Oh just like these comments made by you?

20s and 35s have tip tanks.
Chicks dig tip tanks.

Don't tease me....

:rawk::rawk::rawk::rawk:

Dude came on here asking about Lear vs. Cessna and he got 4 pages of opinions on single vs 2 pilot. It's very annoying and doesn't contribute to the original question. This needs a thread of its own.

 

[mikecweb]

Oh just like these comments made by you?


Dude came on here asking about Lear vs. Cessna and he got 4 pages of opinions on single vs 2 pilot. It's very annoying and doesn't contribute to the original question. This needs a thread of its own.

Maybe you should apply to be a moderator.....

And also change your posts per page.

 

[Boris Badenov]

This needs a thread of its own.

Start one. And RESPECT YOUR ELDERS, JUNIOR!

Why, when I was your age, we flew with half a pilot in severe icing all the way with a broken radio range if we were lucky. And we LIKED IT.

 

[jtrain609]

I find it interesting that everybody here keeps saying, almost, the same thing and no one really cares to realize it. Boris, Mikecweb, MikeD, Jtrain, 400A, everybody says that a PROFICIENT two pilot crew is much better than a single-pilot op. I fly single-pilot like many have or do currently fly. There are sometimes that I wish a second set of eyes were there to back me up but is not going to happen. I love flying freight and last time I checked boxes don't complain about a second pilot not being up front.

So this entire thread, Single-Pilot v. Crew, boils down to yes, a crew aircraft can be safter than a single-pilot operation, however, there are many things that get in the way of both to make them seem less than advantagous. So what? If you don't want to be single-pilot, don't do it. If you don't want to be 121, don't do it. That is what makes America awesome, the fact that you have a choice with your feet. Presently, my feet, and hands, are the sole manipluators of the aircraft because I make WAY more money than I would if I took just about any other job, NO ALL JOBS. Most freight pilots know that they want to end up in a two crew aircraft as well. I have spent the last 1700 hours single-pilot so yes it will take me a little time to adjust to a two crew operation. Doesn't mean anybody fears it or doesn't want to but some things like flying AND talking on the radio the WHOLE flight are something that I am used it. I am sure that when I get to the two pilot aircraft that I will enjoy it so that someone can back be up and vice versa.

Least of all.........ENJOY THE FLYING THAT YOU ARE DOING, I know that Jtrain isn't, but a lot of people are on furlough and hopefully the economy will turn around soon so that people will get their jobs back and we can go back to singing kumbya. Just my $0.02, take it with a grain of salt or however.

Erm...I'm not furloughed?

 

[PGT]

Start one. And RESPECT YOUR ELDERS, JUNIOR!

Why, when I was your age, we flew with half a pilot in severe icing all the way with a broken radio range if we were lucky. And we LIKED IT.

Sorry

Yea none of that stuff. Nowdays you will have glass Skycatchers replacing the 1 radio/1 VOR 152's, DA-42's doing 3 min runups while they load the gps, and training so structured it will make ERAU flying look fun.