Why I Left an Airline Pilot Career

[Soku39]

I suppose so; you’re going to do very little else for that time (ask me how I know).

That's why I would prefer to have to opportunity to not worry about aviation for two years and focus on just the one thing. This is just my experience after having to split attention between the airline and Air Force for the better part of a decade.

My brother sells telecom. He owns a 1.4 million dollar house where I grew up in the SF Bay.

No radiation exposure. No travel. No drug testing. Works from home. Spends tons of time with his kid. Goes to the range a lot and punches holes in paper.

Better healthcare. Better vacation policy. More control over his personal life. Better career outlook. Healthier lifestyle.

Do you want me to post his LinkedIn or something? How specific do you want me to be? How many friends with jobs that aren’t in aviation do you want me to name?


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No need for the snark, this is a great example, but it doesn't answer how long it took him to get into it, who he had to know, his other pedigree. I would consider your brother lucky, when I'm flying over cities, most houses are not 1.4 million dollars, which means most people aren't doin what he's doin.

My brother also lives in SF, works for a large tech company doing UI/UX after getting an MFA while being a high school teacher. He has a good set up, but I don't necessarily envy him.

I too know many people in many other careers, but few of their lives are what I consider better than mine. That's what I was detailing in my original post, that said 80% of this is due to sheer luck, I could have had a completely opposite experience had 2 or 3 factors been different.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

My brother also lives in SF, works for a large tech company doing UI/UX after getting an MFA while being a high school teacher. He has a good set up, but I don't necessarily envy him.

Having ridden BART with enough TechBro Disruptive Ambiverts Who Are Literally Thrilled To Do Anything, I really am glad I am not among their ranks.

 

[Soku39]

Having ridden BART with enough TechBro Disruptive Ambiverts Who Are Literally Thrilled To Do Anything, I really am glad I am not among their ranks.

Eh he lives in a 1 BR in Dogpatch with his wife. They were paying a premium, but their rent has gone down from 3.2k/mo to 2k/mo since Corona cratered the SF rental market. Pre Covid they both walked or rode a bike to work, it works for them and obviously they aren't going into the office now.

 

[Skåning]

Better healthcare. Better vacation policy. More control over his personal life. Better career outlook. Healthier lifestyle.

Most of that is because you chose to come to a company with the sh*tiest contract on the block.

 

[SteveC]

Hard lesson to learn: Happiness/unhappiness is an internal decision on how you are going to respond to external conditions.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Eh he lives in a 1 BR in Dogpatch with his wife. They were paying a premium, but their rent has gone down from 3.2k/mo to 2k/mo since Corona cratered the SF rental market. Pre Covid they both walked or rode a bike to work, it works for them and obviously they aren't going into the office now.

Almost makes me want to move back to the Bay, that. Loved living there.

Grass is always apparently greener.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

That's why I would prefer to have to opportunity to not worry about aviation for two years and focus on just the one thing. This is just my experience after having to split attention between the airline and Air Force for the better part of a decade.



No need for the snark, this is a great example, but it doesn't answer how long it took him to get into it, who he had to know, his other pedigree. I would consider your brother lucky, when I'm flying over cities, most houses are not 1.4 million dollars, which means most people aren't doin what he's doin.

My brother also lives in SF, works for a large tech company doing UI/UX after getting an MFA while being a high school teacher. He has a good set up, but I don't necessarily envy him.

I too know many people in many other careers, but few of their lives are what I consider better than mine. That's what I was detailing in my original post, that said 80% of this is due to sheer luck, I could have had a completely opposite experience had 2 or 3 factors been different.

He was an accountant. Then worked for an recruiting firm that recruited accountants. That's how he got into sales. Telecom took a while to get a list of clients. So he didn't make good money right away. He slowly built up his list of clients and now does far better than I do. I'll probably do better than he will if I make captain, but lol that isn't even a possibility right now. Probably 10-15 years out. If my airline even exists then.

The funny thing is that here I am 15 years later and the amount of money I made to get where I am at now is shameful. CFI, 91 copilot, 135 copilot, 135 PIC, back to 135 copilot jets, 135 jet PIC, 91 PIC jet. 121 regional because 91/135 pilots are apparently untrainable. 121 major. There was a long terrible road to get to where I am now and it wasn't worth it looking back. There isn't really a better way to put it. It's fine now but I'll likely be furloughed next year. If that happens it won't be fine.

There is a huge column of negatives and basically one positive. You get to play with airplanes. If airplanes are all that matters to you and you're a completely one dimensional person. Aviation is your ticket to happiness. Personally I think there is more to life. Like Todd I'm not suggesting you get out of aviation. It's hard. I've tried. Just this year I tried. I've just constantly been confused by the posts from people who want to leave their career for this one. I don't recommend that.

You don't have to hate me for saying it. I think there is plenty of data to support this.

 

[Soku39]

Hard lesson to learn: Happiness/unhappiness is an internal decision on how you are going to respond to external conditions.

I both agree and disagree, it is partly a decision, but that decision is harder to make if say you're commuting to a crash pad in NY while you're missing every important moment in your kids life. Some things just suck and if you're life is nothing but suck, I do not fault a person for not being "happy".

He was an accountant. Then worked for an recruiting firm that recruited accountants. That's how he got into sales. Telecom took a while to get a list of clients. So he didn't make good money right away. He slowly built up his list of clients and now does far better than I do. I'll probably do better than he will if I make captain, but lol that isn't even a possibility right now. Probably 10-15 years out. If my airline even exists then.

The funny thing is that here I am 15 years later and the amount of money I made to get where I am at now is shameful. CFI, 91 copilot, 135 copilot, 135 PIC, back to 135 copilot jets, 135 jet PIC, 91 PIC jet. 121 regional because 91/135 pilots are apparently untrainable. 121 major. There was a long terrible road to get to where I am now and it wasn't worth it looking back. There isn't really a better way to put it. It's fine now but I'll likely be furloughed next year. If that happens it won't be fine.

There is a huge column of negatives and basically one positive. You get to play with airplanes. If airplanes are all that matters to you and you're a completely one dimensional person. Aviation is your ticket to happiness. Personally I think there is more to life. Like Todd I'm not suggesting you get out of aviation. It's hard. I've tried. Just this year I tried. I've just constantly been confused by the posts from people who want to leave their career for this one. I don't recommend that.

You don't have to hate me for saying it. I think there is plenty of data to support this.

Hey again, not hating you at all, again I was extremely fortunate in that the Air Force shielded me from basically all of the negative aspects of building an aviation career all through my 20s. For me, up until now it has been worth it. I want for nothing and at least in Ohio, I'm doin a-ok. I reflect every day on the 40 year old dishing food out at Chipotle, changing bed pans as a nurses aid. There are a million worse things I could be doing all of which make 40k a year or less.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Most of that is because you chose to come to a company with the sh*tiest contract on the block.

Dude you sound like the senior captains who live in Gig Harbor now. Are you going to tell me about your boat next? How you're getting your house completely remodeled while you live in your second home? After I tell you about how I can't find a place to live in Seattle on first year pay?

I have a TBNT from Allegiant. An app out at every Major. Lots of networking events. Lunch with the SWA base chief.

But yeah dude. I "chose" the worst major when they called because it was way better than the regional I was at. I guess technically that is a choice. I could have stayed at the Weezy on 2nd year FO pay...

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I both agree and disagree, it is partly a decision, but that decision is harder to make if say you're commuting to a crash pad in NY while you're missing every important moment in your kids life. Some things just suck and if you're life is nothing but suck, I do not fault a person for not being "happy".

Toxic positivity is a real thing and poop sandwiches should be described as such.

 

[Flyinthrew]

Now we just need mikecweb to show up and this thread is complete. BEEF, you ever wonder why most threads you're in end up the same way?

 

[SteveC]

I both agree and disagree, it is partly a decision, but that decision is harder to make if say you're commuting to a crash pad in NY while you're missing every important moment in your kids life. Some things just suck and if you're life is nothing but suck, I do not fault a person for not being "happy".
...

Harder, yes, but not impossible. Realize also that neither "happy" nor "unhappy" are permanent states of mind. Even that pilot that's commuting to crash pad and missing important life moments is light-years ahead of a very large number of people on this earth in terms of family, food, shelter, community, etc.. I'm not saying that one can always be happy purely by force of will, but that one has more control over one's own attitude and response to situations than we often realize.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Now we just need mikecweb to show up and this thread is complete. BEEF, you ever wonder why most threads you're in end up the same way?

Generally speaking? Sure. Most of the people here on JC are one dimensional personalities that put aviation far in front of most other aspects of their lives. Almost everything including their health, its all secondary to playing with jetz. Even family is arguable. Look how much time pilots spend away from their children. I've watched this pattern with disbelief since I began my career in aviation. 121 is a little better. There are a few more pilots I run into with interests outside of touching airplanes.

If you ask to be adequately compensated for all the things in the negative column or you simply point out that there is a negative column, it is simply amazing how many pilots will get angry with you and tell you if you don't like it leave.

The same thing is just happening here on JC. You just need to understand one thing. I'm not personally attacking anyone. I'm just saying this job isn't so great and the people involved accept that because they really like airplanes. Also pilots get really angry if you tell them airplanes aren't the best thing since sliced bread.

If (non specific) you want to get angry and personally attack me because I said that, well that is on (non specific) you.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Being "happy" while your life is complete trash is called delusion.

Not saying that there isn't value to a positive outlook in the face of difficulty. But it's pure BS to claim that someone is personally at fault if they aren't happy with their life regardless of circumstances. That's the kind of thing I'd expect to be said by someone who is pretty damned privileged and lacking in empathy. Not a typical SteveC kinda comment. Just sayin'.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Harder, yes, but not impossible. Realize also that neither "happy" nor "unhappy" are permanent states of mind. Even that pilot that's commuting to crash pad and missing important life moments is light-years ahead of a very large number of people on this earth in terms of family, food, shelter, community, etc.. I'm not saying that one can always be happy purely by force of will, but that one has more control over one's own attitude and response to situations than we often realize.

Money cannot buy happiness, but it certainly makes a lot of things easier—which, in turn, makes ME happy.

The unhappiest I’ve ever been in aviation was when I felt (merited feelings, perceptions, whatever or otherwise; not the point—this was how I felt, I am only half-Vulcan) my efforts were FAR in excess of my compensation. Which was a quite healthy figure especially compared to the mythical median income, but I had to bust my ass to make that much money, still felt as if I was only barely getting by, and was exhausted and doing nothing but driving airplanes around.

 

[Skåning]

Dude you sound like the senior captains who live in Gig Harbor now. Are you going to tell me about your boat next? How you're getting your house completely remodeled while you live in your second home? After I tell you about how I can't find a place to live in Seattle on first year pay?

I have a TBNT from Allegiant. An app out at every Major. Lots of networking events. Lunch with the SWA base chief.

But yeah dude. I "chose" the worst major when they called because it was way better than the regional I was at. I guess technically that is a choice. I could have stayed at the Weezy on 2nd year FO pay...

If you fly with senior gig harbor types that complain about the contract you need to deliver them a swift kick in the ass. THEY are the reason we have this sh*t sandwich. They have time and again selfishly voted for their individual interests at the expense of the profession and younger pilots. Selling others down the road and then complaining about it? Eff them

Most of the people here on JC are one dimensional personalities that put aviation far in front of most other aspects of their lives. Almost everything including their health, its all secondary to playing with jetz. Even family is arguable. Look how much time pilots spend away from their children. I've watched this pattern with disbelief since I began my career in aviation. 121 is a little better. There are a few more pilots I run into with interests outside of touching airplanes.

Uh what? If you looked around you’d find this to not be true.

 

[Flyinthrew]

Generally speaking? Sure. Most of the people here on JC are one dimensional personalities that put aviation far in front of most other aspects of their lives. Almost everything including their health, its all secondary to playing with jetz. Even family is arguable. Look how much time pilots spend away from their children. I've watched this pattern with disbelief since I began my career in aviation. 121 is a little better. There are a few more pilots I run into with interests outside of touching airplanes.

If you ask to be adequately compensated for all the things in the negative column or you simply point out that there is a negative column, it is simply amazing how many pilots will get angry with you and tell you if you don't like it leave.

The same thing is just happening here on JC. You just need to understand one thing. I'm not personally attacking anyone. I'm just saying this job isn't so great and the people involved accept that because they really like airplanes. Also pilots get really angry if you tell them airplanes aren't the best thing since sliced bread.

If (non specific) you want to get angry and personally attack me because I said that, well that is on (non specific) you.

I see the same thing in spades in Marine Tacair. We have the benefit of doing it under the guise of sacrificing for your country. Guess what, there’s a time and place for it, and a Tuesday evening in April during my sons’ baseball games isn’t it. It’s the main reason I’m leaving. I got snagged in it. I get it.

I’m not sure I’m going to hang out at Airwarriors.com and insinuate that they’re all idiots and then bait them into fights over it. Maybe I will though. Seems fun.


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[Soku39]

I see the same thing in spades in Marine Tacair. We have the benefit of doing it under the guise of sacrificing for your country. Guess what, there’s a time and place for it, and a Tuesday evening in April during my sons’ baseball games isn’t it. It’s the main reason I’m leaving. I got snagged in it. I get it.

I’m not sure I’m going to hang out at Airwarriors.com and insinuate that they’re all idiots and then bait them into fights over it. Maybe I will though. Seems fun.


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Frankly this is where the guard excels, you need that time off? it's encouraged and not a soul is gonna judge ya for it. We're in it for the long term health and longevity of the squadron, not climbing over each others backs to make 0-6 or whatever other fictitious goals one may have. Easy to do when you can spend 10+ years as a line flying 0-5.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Frankly this is where the guard excels, you need that time off? it's encouraged and not a soul is gonna judge ya for it. We're in it for the long term health and longevity of the squadron, not climbing over each others backs to make 0-6 or whatever other fictitious goals one may have. Easy to do when you can spend 10+ years as a line flying 0-5.

This is awesome to hear.

My least favorite time-off story...I had a family emergency where I had to get off a trip, in a hurry, in Los Angeles. It happened to happen while I was on a layover, and I called RIGHT AWAY (like it was 2-3 hours prior to show time, in fact) to get the machinery moving to put someone into position to cover for me.

The scolding I got from the assistant chief pilot (at the time, LAX was not an ER7 base and so - the horror - someone had to deadhead down from SFO, or be rescheduled) was of sufficient length that you’d think we were supposed to be dropping bombs on target on time and that if I did not show up, many Bothans would die.

 

[Soku39]

This is awesome to hear.

My least favorite time-off story...I had a family emergency where I had to get off a trip, in a hurry, in Los Angeles. It happened to happen while I was on a layover, and I called RIGHT AWAY (like it was 2-3 hours prior to show time, in fact) to get the machinery moving to put someone into position to cover for me.

The scolding I got from the assistant chief pilot (at the time, LAX was not an ER7 base and so - the horror - someone had to deadhead down from SFO, or be rescheduled) was of sufficient length that you’d think we were supposed to be dropping bombs on target on time and that if I did not show up, many Bothans would die.

The inability of chief pilots at regional airlines to act with the least bit of empathy or the slightest bit of helpfulness knows no bounds. It's idiotic and I hate it.