Why be an Instrument Pilot? Ridiculous ! ! !

Doing a weight and balance is never a bad idea and if you really want to do one for every single flight, go ahead. It also depends on the type of plane. For a Warrior I did not always do one for every single flight, but for a Seminole I always do one. Calculating your landing/takeoff roll is another important item that is done on the W&B, as well as PA and DA. Do whatever you think is necessary to have a safe flight, you are PIC.
 
JEP said:
???? I must be missing something. Busy working, surfing, etc...:dunno:

No, I only did one W/B for my checkride....
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If the examiner considered a W&B so critical, why didn't we do one for the actual check ride conditions; applicant, examiner, and the amount of fuel in the tanks at that time? That isn't what we do though. We calculate a W&B for a theoretical flight, review it during the oral, toss it in the trash on the way out to the flight line, and then jump right in the airplane and go take the check ride.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
If the examiner considered a W&B so critical, why didn't we do one for the actual check ride conditions; applicant, examiner, and the amount of fuel in the tanks at that time? That isn't what we do though. We calculate a W&B for a theoretical flight, and then we pile right in the airplane and go take the check ride.
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I did the W/B for the actual checkride. I was given the weight of the DPE from himself and told to plan the flight with full tanks,( which it was ) and then we piled into the plane and left.....:cool:
 
For your commercial as well?

I had 3 pax, 200 lbs of boxes, a 400 mile trip, and had to leave some fuel behind and plan a stop.
 
At what stage are you at with your instrument training? The best thing to do is to sit down with your flight instructor, and have a conversation with him/her about what you expect out of him/her, and what he/she expects out of you.

As far as your instructor not wanting to venture into IMC with you it may be a lot of things. Maybe he/she dosen't feel that you are at the stage of your instrument training where you are ready to be flying in IMC and shooting approaches.

You have to understand that this time of year around the CHI area IMC is not really flyable in a non-FIKI certified airplane.

Just for my own curosity where are you flying? Anyway best of luck with your training.
 
I didn't know a W/B was supposed to be done before every training flight. With the exception of my x-countries, it's been pretty much just hop in and go. I've had various instructors and it's been the same with all of them.

Edit: The "hop in and go" includes a thorough pre-flight.
 
Sorry to hijack the thread here...

I tell my students to go through their POH and caclulate hypothetical scenarios based on real world possible conditions. They usually come up with lots of good stuff.

Typically my students do w/b calcs for the actual flight conditions (student, DPE, flight bags, fuel). They also do a few more assuming gross weight a light weight scenario.

then I have them take these figures and calculate landing, takeoff, and climb performance based on the conditions for the check ride as well as a hypothetical scenario based on a field at 7000' on a hot day.

For multi check rides all of these calcs are done for each configuration option (engines working/not working, gear up/down etc).

They also complete a weight and balance and performance data for their arrival at their destination.

It turns out to be several pages of calcs but it demonstrates to the examiner they really know the affects of weight, altitude and temperature on their aircraft and it usually keeps the aircraft performance part of their check ride quite short.

Hijack over.

Before you switch instructors at least give him a reason why you decided to switch. If he doesn't realize there is a problem he will not know how to change. He may also be able to explain why he did what he did.

Maybe he just got done flying the plane and knew it was preflighted and ready to go. Maybe he checked the pitot in the morning. Maybe it was a day VFR flight. I don't typically check lights for day VFR flights, I'd rather keep the battery in good shape. More than likely his reasoning was lost in translation?
 
BCTAv8r said:
I didn't know a W/B was supposed to be done before every training flight. With the exception of my x-countries, it's been pretty much just hop in and go. I've had various instructors and it's been the same with all of them.
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What would make an x/c an different than a local flight, assuming the weighting is the same?

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just wondering if you've been given a reason for this procedure. ;)
 
etflies said:
Question for the public, do you do a w&b prior to each and every training flight?
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yep. even in the same airplane with the same instructor and fuel loads. You know what they say, the habits you form are the ones which can save your bacon. Maybe it was my training, maybe it's in my personality. But, either way I ALWAYS know I am within limits and have the information when I have been ramp checked (which has happened a few times.)

TFaudree_ERAU said:
Did you do two W&B calculations for your check ride? I only did one, and it included a whole bunch of people and luggage.
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yep. one for the ride itself and one theoretical one so the examiner could prod the knowledge level of the applicant.

TFaudree_ERAU said:
If the examiner considered a W&B so critical, why didn't we do one for the actual check ride conditions; applicant, examiner, and the amount of fuel in the tanks at that time?
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All of mine did, actually; every single one.
[/QUOTE]

TFaudree_ERAU said:
For your commercial as well?

I had 3 pax, 200 lbs of boxes, a 400 mile trip, and had to leave some fuel behind and plan a stop.
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yep, see above.
 
PVG_SGO said:
I almost lost trust to my flight instructor. He doesn't calculate the weight and balance before every flight training
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Why would you? Unless you guys are on some hardcore diets, the data is going to be essentially the same for each flight. Maybe run the #'s during XCs when you might take full fuel.

How can I can become a really good pilot if I never fly into actual IFR weather?
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You're not necessarily going to get more than a handful of "actual" hours during training. In fact, it's entirely possible not to get any. You will have to get out there on your own and fly actual IFR after you get your rating. Take an IFR pilot if you're not comfortable.
 
You should be able to do a pre-flight fine by yourself. If you are unhappy with your instructor find a different one or at least go talk to the one you have instead of posting it on here. Maybe he doesn't think you are ready for actual IMC. I don't take students into IMC until I am comfortable the student can handle it. You really need to talk to your instructor.
 
minitour said:
Where do you draw the line then? 6 seats with 4 on board? 86 seats with 12 on board?

Weight and balance and performance data should be reviewed prior to each flight whether it's 135, 91, training, you and pops around the patch, or whatever.

-mini
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questions:

has this aircraft been flown by you/the instructor before?

has any equipment changed?

is the fuel load the same?

is the passenger load the same?

if you answered yes to all 4 of these, i would be happy relying on previously computed data. no need to do it again if nothing has changed.
 
Codyjp said:
I use the common sense method, if a pilot can't quickly recognize when there is going to be a problem they probably are just learning things to the rote level. I hope my students learn to do weight and ballance calcs when they know they need it, not because I 'told them so'.
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uh oh, it sounds like you are encouraging THINKING and UNDERSTANDING of concepts.

i dont see an item anywhere on any checklist that says "now think about what you are trying to do"

you sir, fail as an instructor.
 
TXaviator said:
uh oh, it sounds like you are encouraging THINKING and UNDERSTANDING of concepts.

i dont see an item anywhere on any checklist that says "now think about what you are trying to do"

you sir, fail as an instructor.
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Ohh right. And we need to rename them to DO lists too. I forgot.

I really do discourage thinking. I'd hate for my students to hurt their brains. :rotfl:

This of course is completely said with sarcasm...
 
moxiepilot said:
yep. even in the same airplane with the same instructor and fuel loads. You know what they say, the habits you form are the ones which can save your bacon. Maybe it was my training, maybe it's in my personality. But, either way I ALWAYS know I am within limits and have the information when I have been ramp checked (which has happened a few times.)

yep. one for the ride itself and one theoretical one so the examiner could prod the knowledge level of the applicant.


All of mine did, actually; every single one.
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You've had to present a completed weight and balance for a ramp check? Other than presenting the W/B data sheet for the plane your not required to produce anything else. There isn't any regs that require a pilot has to complete a w/b for every flight. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.
 
Codyjp said:
You've had to present a completed weight and balance for a ramp check? Other than presenting the W/B data sheet for the plane your not required to produce anything else. There isn't any regs that require a pilot has to complete a w/b for every flight. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.
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AR(R)OW..... and GRAMP (??) are all you need to show a Fed....
 
cencal83406 said:
AR(R)OW..... and GRAMP (??) are all you need to show a Fed....
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Correct. There isn't anything that says you need to present anything beyond the w/b data sheet.

I'd also be hard pressed to believe they would care about the Radio Station License even if you are flying internationally since they aren't required by the US. I've never done international flying though...

What the heck is GRAMP? I've not used that one
 
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