Who moved your cheese?

[MikeD]

Well, that was not the only time I've been shot at, just the one that was the closest to actually hitting the aircraft.

You're always getting shot at over there, you just don't always know it.

My nly point was that we have it far easier than our generation back in 'Nam did. Look what they went through just for an air medal, yet now we hand out bronze stars for all kinds of horseshat.

 

[Seggy]

But they're hiring the leaders and best right now. They want the best of the best so they can slide in to run the airline eh?

That won't be angry regional fos with nothing else on their resume.

If you are a 7 year Fee For Departure FO then you meet the mins at Delta and United at least. I also know both are hiring a lot of Fee For Departure FOs.

If you don't have anything else on your resume, look in the mirror to assign blame.

 

[jtrain609]

If you are a 7 year Fee For Departure FO then you meet the mins at Delta and United at least.

If you don't have anything else on your resume, look in the mirror to assign blame.

I agree completely. If folks aren't willing to make the sacrifices now to create future success, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

BUT, with that being said, there are some folks out there that have been ridden hard and put away wet. I just want folks to realize that it's not going to be rainbows and unicorn crap for a lot of those folks. Further, there WILL BE losers in this game. I think most of us think that everyone will have a shot at an amazing career, and that simply won't be the case for some folks.

 

[DE727UPS]

Regional F/O's are pilots like the rest of us. There is no requirement to work for peanuts at a regional forever. Get out. Do Air Ambo or find a Corporate gig. The one thing about the old days was you proceeded up the ladder in building block baby steps. If you got knocked down a rung it was only a rung. With the expectation of being a legacy Capt and following the ATP flight school zero to regional program you don't get the intermediate opportunities that give you OPTIONS if plan A doesn't work. I CFIed, worked for the FAA, spotted fish, did SP 135, and did non-sked 121 freight prior to my current job. This experience base gives you OPTIONS rather than going from regional F/O to regional F/O. Or maybe some regional F/O's think NOT being an airline pilot is beneath them. All while they start over at 25K a year....

 

[ppragman]

Regional F/O's are pilots like the rest of us. There is no requirement to work for peanuts at a regional forever. Get out. Do Air Ambo or find a Corporate gig. The one thing about the old days was you proceeded up the ladder in building block baby steps. If you got knocked down a rung it was only a rung. With the expectation of being a legacy Capt and following the ATP flight school zero to regional program you don't get the intermediate opportunities that give you OPTIONS if plan A doesn't work. I CFIed, worked for the FAA, spotted fish, did SP 135, and did non-sked 121 freight prior to my current job. This experience base gives you OPTIONS rather than going from regional F/O to regional F/O. Or maybe some regional F/O's think NOT being an airline pilot is beneath them. All while they start over at 25K a year....

This. I can always go back up north and make a decent living if I need to - someone will hire me up there if necessary. If all you've seen is the right seat of a regional jet your options may be more limited. I fly air ambulance now - which is arguably the best freaking job on the planet, it would be next to impossible to get hired to do this without lots of single pilot IFR, and if a fellow were to get furloughed this would be a great place to hang your hat while you waited for a recall. A variety of experience is a good thing, it gives you options when the going gets tough.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Regional F/O's are pilots like the rest of us. There is no requirement to work for peanuts at a regional forever. Get out. Do Air Ambo or find a Corporate gig. The one thing about the old days was you proceeded up the ladder in building block baby steps. If you got knocked down a rung it was only a rung. With the expectation of being a legacy Capt and following the ATP flight school zero to regional program you don't get the intermediate opportunities that give you OPTIONS if plan A doesn't work. I CFIed, worked for the FAA, spotted fish, did SP 135, and did non-sked 121 freight prior to my current job. This experience base gives you OPTIONS rather than going from regional F/O to regional F/O. Or maybe some regional F/O's think NOT being an airline pilot is beneath them. All while they start over at 25K a year....

And this is what many pilots seem to forget. There is a plethora of different types of flying jobs that are all very rewarding, can pay really well, give you a great QOL and can even be pretty secure/certain. If anything, the last few decades of the airline industry have proven that 121 is not necessarily the end all be all of aviation careers. The more variety in your experience, the more flexible you are, the more you will be open and better prepared for perhaps some type of flying which you would have never even considered, thought you maybe wouldn't have a shot at or even knew existed. Explore and look at your options. You may be surprised at what happens when you do. Don't limit yourself. Better to take a side step to something better/more satisfying, than a straight path to possible disappointment and stagnation.

 

[MikeD]

Regional F/O's are pilots like the rest of us. There is no requirement to work for peanuts at a regional forever. Get out. Do Air Ambo or find a Corporate gig. The one thing about the old days was you proceeded up the ladder in building block baby steps. If you got knocked down a rung it was only a rung. With the expectation of being a legacy Capt and following the ATP flight school zero to regional program you don't get the intermediate opportunities that give you OPTIONS if plan A doesn't work. I CFIed, worked for the FAA, spotted fish, did SP 135, and did non-sked 121 freight prior to my current job. This experience base gives you OPTIONS rather than going from regional F/O to regional F/O. Or maybe some regional F/O's think NOT being an airline pilot is beneath them. All while they start over at 25K a year....

And this is what many pilots seem to forget. There is a plethora of different types of flying jobs that are all very rewarding, can pay really well, give you a great QOL and can even be pretty secure/certain. If anything, the last few decades of the airline industry have proven that 121 is not necessarily the end all be all of aviation careers. The more variety in your experience, the more flexible you are, the more you will be open and better prepared for perhaps some type of flying which you would have never even considered, thought you maybe wouldn't have a shot at or even knew existed. Explore and look at your options. You may be surprised at what happens when you do. Don't limit yourself. Better to take a side step to something better/more satisfying, than a straight path to possible disappointment and stagnation.

Agreed on both, and this is coming from a guy who does a wide variety of things now, as well as in the past. Don't limit yourself.......truer words never spoken. Limiting yourself only narrows your marketability, should you need to exercise that marketability outside the narrow scope you maintain. 121 isn't the end-all, be-all of aviation, there are a good number of others; yet at the same time, one's end-all, be-all may not be another's. However never think there's only "one way of doing business" in terms of career......there are multiple ways in this business.

 

[Stomp16]

I'm 32, started flying in 2001. Spent the last 6 years flying a 206 to hell and back. LOVED IT but hated being gone for so long at a time. Now, I'm flying for a Fedex feeder. Is this what I saw for myself when I entered this career? Ha! No way. I can't live on first year 121 pay so I have been forced to look elsewhere for flying income. Would I love to fly a 7-4 transatlantic, of course. Will it ever happen, not likely. But, I'm not mad about any of it. I've seen some awesome places (with many a member on this board) and have a network that stretches from coast to coast. I wouldn't trade any of the previous GA 91K flying for anything, it was a blast! I'm hoping to have as much fun with the 135 side now. You only go around once, don't make yourself and everyone else around you miserable, be happy!

 

[Hacker15e]

there are some folks out there that have been ridden hard and put away wet.

Just for some perspective, I'll add that this is the reason there is currently a mass exodus of pilots departing the military right now. The last decade of "combat operations tempo" has also not been kind to us in terms of QOL. There are many folks whose "nights spent away from home" are just as great as guys slugging it out in the regionals...and those nights aren't being spent in crew hotels, either.

 

[jtrain609]

Just for some perspective, I'll add that this is the reason there is currently a mass exodus of pilots departing the military right now. The last decade of "combat operations tempo" has also not been kind to us in terms of QOL. There are many folks whose "nights spent away from home" are just as great as guys slugging it out in the regionals...and those nights aren't being spent in crew hotels, either.

Absolutely, and it makes the chances of getting that brass ring so much slimmer for everyone involved. There are tons of folks out there that want those top level jobs.

 

[Phil Schuyler]

This thread brings to mind a former co-worker, a pilot, from years ago. Early 50's. Nice guy. Competent. Skilled. He had spent his entire career up to that point flying for 3rd tier carriers. It's not that he made to a major and gotten laid off, or mergered, or bankrupted. He'd never made it there in the first place. So that leads me to ask: Is it better to have cheesed and lost than never to have cheesed at all?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I remember sitting in ground school at AirTran in 1998. Was around 24 years old and the other guys in my class were mostly FOs from CCAir and Great Lakes. There were a few guys who worked for airlines like Trans Meridian, Champion, Key Air. Their hair was grey and their ALPA stash was big and bushy like a wise old walrus.

I remember commenting to one of my Laker buddies... "Those guys must have made some bad choices. I'm not going to be one of those guys that bounces around at 2nd tier airline after 2nd tier airline twenty years from now!"

Then life happened and I ended up with much longer resumes than any of those guys. The gods of aviation misfortune are playful and inventive. Those guys had their cheese moved too... but I never heard a single one of them complaining about it.

 

[Phil Schuyler]

I remember sitting in ground school at AirTran in 1998. Was around 24 years old and the other guys in my class were mostly FOs from CCAir and Great Lakes. There were a few guys who worked for airlines like Trans Meridian, Champion, Key Air. Their hair was grey and their ALPA stash was big and bushy like a wise old walrus.

I remember commenting to one of my Laker buddies... "Those guys must have made some bad choices. I'm not going to be one of those guys that bounces around at 2nd tier airline after 2nd tier airline twenty years from now!"

Then life happened and I ended up with much longer resumes than any of those guys. The gods of aviation misfortune are playful and inventive. Those guys had their cheese moved too... but I never heard a single one of them complaining about it.

Hey, Zap, if I may ask, who do you work for now? Air Tran to US Air to WalMart to...where?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I work with JTrain at California Pacific.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

I work with JTrain at California Pacific.

Me too!!!