Clocks
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
That's because you're a new guy who thinks everything is owed to them
Who is retiring soon?/ Age 60/65 rule...
- Thread starter hotice
- Start date
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
You're also low balling the industry with your sub par contract.
You're also low balling the industry with your sub par contract.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
Terrible?
Son I need to give you a lecture on what reserve at the regional level involves!
Terrible?
Son I need to give you a lecture on what reserve at the regional level involves!
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
A week? AMATEUR! Why back in my day...
But for real I talked with a Delta 757 FO that was SLC based and said he sat reserve for something like 12 years, commuting from SLC-JFK for a good chunk of it. Talk about being hired at the wrong time.
I sat a week of reserve at Skyway and that's all I needed man. No mas problemo jeffe!
A week? AMATEUR! Why back in my day...
But for real I talked with a Delta 757 FO that was SLC based and said he sat reserve for something like 12 years, commuting from SLC-JFK for a good chunk of it. Talk about being hired at the wrong time.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
Exactly. If I CAN retire before I hit the max age, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna do it. I expect since the max age is raised, management will be trying to push the max retirement benefits back, banking on guys not being able to keep their medicals long enough to get full retirement benefits. Should be clauses in the contracts that say "If you've been with the company XX number of years, you get full benefits when you retire" regardless of age.
I can't really blame management for trying to push full benefits back, but it's up to us to throw a counter offer.
I was looking forward to retiring with benefits at 60 (55 preferably). However, as the CBAs evolve, I'm sure early retirement will be a minimum of 60.
I understand following ICAO, and the political importance of it, but I don't want to die in a seat.
Exactly. If I CAN retire before I hit the max age, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna do it. I expect since the max age is raised, management will be trying to push the max retirement benefits back, banking on guys not being able to keep their medicals long enough to get full retirement benefits. Should be clauses in the contracts that say "If you've been with the company XX number of years, you get full benefits when you retire" regardless of age.
I can't really blame management for trying to push full benefits back, but it's up to us to throw a counter offer.
casey
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
ask yourself why a pilot needs to get a medical to fly. when you can understand that, you'll understand your question.
You may also know plenty of healthy 80 year olds, but how many of them have horrible sleep patterns and survive on a diet of airport food, fast food and restaurants for most of their nutrition.
Sure there are pilots that are healthy, exercise regularly and eat a healthy diet but they are the minority.
ask yourself why a pilot needs to get a medical to fly. when you can understand that, you'll understand your question.
You may also know plenty of healthy 80 year olds, but how many of them have horrible sleep patterns and survive on a diet of airport food, fast food and restaurants for most of their nutrition.
Sure there are pilots that are healthy, exercise regularly and eat a healthy diet but they are the minority.
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
Somewhat related question. During the Age 60 rule time, guys that hit 60 could roll back into the FE seat until age 64, IIRC, which is why I remember 4-stripers sitting that position back in the day. Of course, that may only apply to cargo ops today....since they're some of the only ones remaining with FEs. But two q's:
1. Was that rule for all 121 ops?
2. And if so, for cargo guys or anyone still carrying an FE, now that the mandatory retirement is 65, can a guy roll back into the FE seat until 69?
Somewhat related question. During the Age 60 rule time, guys that hit 60 could roll back into the FE seat until age 64, IIRC, which is why I remember 4-stripers sitting that position back in the day. Of course, that may only apply to cargo ops today....since they're some of the only ones remaining with FEs. But two q's:
1. Was that rule for all 121 ops?
2. And if so, for cargo guys or anyone still carrying an FE, now that the mandatory retirement is 65, can a guy roll back into the FE seat until 69?
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
adreamer
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
From my perspective, I have seen few CAs at my base who would like to retire because of this rule. :banghead:
From my past career, there are teachers who retired and came back to teach. They are not only take their monthly retirement benefit, but also 1st teacher's salary. Double standard, I think not.
Like Seggy and Mr. Doug said, it is the way it is. I will be "enjoying" 5 more years of flying.
From my perspective, I have seen few CAs at my base who would like to retire because of this rule. :banghead:
From my past career, there are teachers who retired and came back to teach. They are not only take their monthly retirement benefit, but also 1st teacher's salary. Double standard, I think not.
Like Seggy and Mr. Doug said, it is the way it is. I will be "enjoying" 5 more years of flying.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
man! Anyone who disagrees with Velo on age 65 is a nub!
Plus...give me some credit! I've been around long enough to have read your stories.
man! Anyone who disagrees with Velo on age 65 is a nub! Plus...give me some credit! I've been around long enough to have read your stories.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
And to think. . .
Huge ALPA cheerleader before getting hired.
Maintained such cheerleader status for a period of time
End up leaving the profession for personal reasons (bravo I might add - good job putting your feet where your mouth are). . .
And now. . .not much of a good thing to say about the organization.
Quite the change in opinion over a relatively short period of time.
To think that you might have been a perfect fit to help us fight the challenges that lay ahead and yet you no longer have a vested interest in what occurs so you're now willing to minimize the great work being done at every opportunity.
Hmm. . .
And to think. . .
Huge ALPA cheerleader before getting hired.
Maintained such cheerleader status for a period of time
End up leaving the profession for personal reasons (bravo I might add - good job putting your feet where your mouth are). . .
And now. . .not much of a good thing to say about the organization.
Quite the change in opinion over a relatively short period of time.
To think that you might have been a perfect fit to help us fight the challenges that lay ahead and yet you no longer have a vested interest in what occurs so you're now willing to minimize the great work being done at every opportunity.
Hmm. . .
esa17
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
Since we "have" to get medicals I think you should be able to fly as long as you qualify for the medical.
I see it as pure and simple discrimination which enabled that "give me it, its mine" entitlement attitude. Dollars to donuts every one of us who has the opportunity (or need) to fly at 63 will be doing it.
I don't buy it, an ICU nurse (like dear old mom) have to be in fine shape to be able to handle the majority of Americans who come in and are at least 60lbs overweight. When a patient codes the nurse has to be able to lift, tug, and sometimes throw them which isn't all that easy for a 65 year old but it can be done.
So pilots should be allowed to discriminate based upon age simply because they're incapable of making healthy living choices. Got it.
Since we "have" to get medicals I think you should be able to fly as long as you qualify for the medical.
I see it as pure and simple discrimination which enabled that "give me it, its mine" entitlement attitude. Dollars to donuts every one of us who has the opportunity (or need) to fly at 63 will be doing it.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
Seems you have an issue with age discrimination. . .
Take it up with the ICAO.
Seems you have an issue with age discrimination. . .
Take it up with the ICAO.
esa17
Well-Known Member
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
The captain I am flying with this month told me last week:
"Well, Stan.......if the Age 60 Rule were still in effect, I'd be retiring tomorrow...."
You could almost see it in his eyes that - in a way - he wishes it was still in effect.
However, he followed it up with: "..but, I hang around until they kick me out, I guess. Not really ready to retire, anyway."
Personally, the Age 65 Rule that's now the norm, helps me in the long run as far as I see it. I'm almost 44 now, so I could (technically) have 21 more years at my airline if I decide to. With Age 60, I would have only have 16 years left and nothing to show for it.
The captain I am flying with this month told me last week:
"Well, Stan.......if the Age 60 Rule were still in effect, I'd be retiring tomorrow...."
You could almost see it in his eyes that - in a way - he wishes it was still in effect.
However, he followed it up with: "..but, I hang around until they kick me out, I guess. Not really ready to retire, anyway."
Personally, the Age 65 Rule that's now the norm, helps me in the long run as far as I see it. I'm almost 44 now, so I could (technically) have 21 more years at my airline if I decide to. With Age 60, I would have only have 16 years left and nothing to show for it.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Re: Age 60 (65) Rule
To an extent, yes.
You and I will disagree on the arenas that age discrimination (a term that I don't necessarily favor when applied to aviation's command and control structures) can be placed though.
That being said, I'm fine with maintaining international standards. As centralizing as it is in the realm of world politics and keeping friendly. . .it's a negative decentralizing impact for those of us who are intricately involved in the professions impacted.
I don't like. I personally was expecting on retiring at 60, I may. . .but the way it is now. . .I'll end up having to work SOMETHING until I die (now that is sad).
This notion of retirement in and of itself is a myth really.
The largest source of retirement income for Americans? Full time employment. Of which can be directly attached to the significant decrease in pension funds over the past 30 years.
Maybe I'll be some hot stud at 64 that hasn't had three shoulder surgeries or any other ailment related to lugging luggage and a flight kit around for 40+ years (began flying 121 at 23). . .but in all likelihood, our bodies will fail us. Be it emotional or mental stresses related to this industry or the physical demands (>40 years old flying >8 hour segment lengths or >40 years old flying >5 legs a day for four days for three weeks out of a month).
Age 60 or 65. . .to me. . .it's a protection device that we otherwise would not have put in place ourselves "for the love of the game."
(yeah, I covered a lot and they're not necessarily 100% related. . .but)
To an extent, yes.
You and I will disagree on the arenas that age discrimination (a term that I don't necessarily favor when applied to aviation's command and control structures) can be placed though.
That being said, I'm fine with maintaining international standards. As centralizing as it is in the realm of world politics and keeping friendly. . .it's a negative decentralizing impact for those of us who are intricately involved in the professions impacted.
I don't like. I personally was expecting on retiring at 60, I may. . .but the way it is now. . .I'll end up having to work SOMETHING until I die (now that is sad).
This notion of retirement in and of itself is a myth really.
The largest source of retirement income for Americans? Full time employment. Of which can be directly attached to the significant decrease in pension funds over the past 30 years.
Maybe I'll be some hot stud at 64 that hasn't had three shoulder surgeries or any other ailment related to lugging luggage and a flight kit around for 40+ years (began flying 121 at 23). . .but in all likelihood, our bodies will fail us. Be it emotional or mental stresses related to this industry or the physical demands (>40 years old flying >8 hour segment lengths or >40 years old flying >5 legs a day for four days for three weeks out of a month).
Age 60 or 65. . .to me. . .it's a protection device that we otherwise would not have put in place ourselves "for the love of the game."
(yeah, I covered a lot and they're not necessarily 100% related. . .but)
