When will the cost of flying go down?

stesta5074

Well-Known Member
It seemed to be relatively affordable for so many years, why is it so expensive suddenly? Just gas prices... or something else?

My dad and I rented a Beech Skipper for 25$/hour if you bought a 10 hour block around a decade ago. It was old, but we flew it all over Arizona and the coast. I know costs have gone up, but what is mostly responsible for it?

Is there some trend or factor here I'm missing. I'm not in the industry so I'm curious what you're guys take on it is. I simply notice that in AZ, most planes cost around 120$/hour with the bottom being around 90$/hour... What happened? Or is it just me?



Insert random user fee comment here.
 
I don't offer much explanation nor am I a huge authority on the subject but from what I've seen, it's only going to go up.
 
Why does it seem that many flight schools fill their fleet with $250k Cessna 172SP's ($145/ hour) that don't do a better job of instructing or transporting than something ten years old or more? If the goal is to serve the student and make money, wouldn't it make more sense to have a cheaper plane and take more of the rental cost as profit than it is to have an expensive plane, load the student with debt, and skim the margins of profitability?


And G1000's on a 172? Are you kidding me?
 
Cost of insurance, maintenance, fuel....take your pick.

Maintenance costs that much more than it used to? Insurance has gone up that much more? My friend's airplane has had very stable insurance rates for 10 years so I don't see why it is different for FBOs?
 
I remember the good old days when I used to be able to fill up my car for 25 cents, and buy three big macs for 10 cents, and rent a 2009 Pilatus for 125/hr wet w/ instructor. O wait...

It is called inflation...as the consumer the only thing you can do is not purchase it. Or do the American thing of pulling down a 70k loan you can not afford and open up three credit cards and max em out for flight training and then complain when your 30k car gets repo'ed when you can't afford your 200k worth of debt.
 
I remember the good old days when I used to be able to fill up my car for 25 cents, and buy three big macs for 10 cents, and rent a 2009 Pilatus for 125/hr wet w/ instructor. O wait...

It is called inflation...as the consumer the only thing you can do is not purchase it. Or do the American thing of pulling down a 70k loan you can not afford and open up three credit cards and max em out for flight training and then complain when your 30k car gets repo'ed when you can't afford your 200k worth of debt.

Are flight schools leasing/financing planes now more than they used to? Maybe we are paying more because flight schools have taken on a higher debt load than ever before.

I understand what you're saying but I'm not talking about the '60s.
 
Flying has always been an upper middle class and up game and that isn't going to change. Even if you go back to the days where it cost you say, $4K to get a private ticket, how many people making $30K a year can afford that?
 
It seemed to be relatively affordable for so many years, why is it so expensive suddenly? Just gas prices... or something else?

My dad and I rented a Beech Skipper for 25$/hour if you bought a 10 hour block around a decade ago. It was old, but we flew it all over Arizona and the coast. I know costs have gone up, but what is mostly responsible for it?
Well the first thing you need to realize is that you were paying way under market price for that skipper ten years ago. It was a little over ten years ago that I first started flying. I did my training in the cheapest plane I could find which was an old ratty C150 that went for $45/hr wet. If you were getting a Skipper for $25/hr wet, you were getting a bargain.

If I wanted to rent a cheap C150 today, I could probably find one for around $85/hr wet. Maybe even a little cheaper if I looked hard enough. Granted $45 to $85 is still a big jump for ten years. But when you consider the cost of fuel has more than doubled in that time and, from what I understand, insurance rates for training aircraft have more than quadrupled, its easy to see why prices have gotten so high.
 
Inflation, gas, insurance, and maintenance, probably in that order.

Also the fact that Cessna and Piper got out of the aircraft manufacturing game for a while, so there are 10 years worth of airplanes that just don't exist. The planes built before that are getting old and crochety, the planes built after are just starting to become affordable for flight training. So as the new-build (meaning 1996 and onward) Cessnas and Pipers continue coming down in price, we MIGHT see a small drop in training costs at some schools.
 
My dad was able to rent a 172 back in the 70's for $20 an hour. And the checkout was a lap around the pattern. And then we was able to get the plane without the Hobbs so it was all off of tach time!

When I worked at an FBO it was $99 an hour for a 2005 round gauge 172 and $115 for the G1000. Some FBOs with older airplanes I have seen as low as $65 to $75 for a 172N. So if you do your research, you can still find a good deal.

And if you're an employee, then you can fly at cost!
 
I will chime in here as I have two airplanes that I rent. As an example I rent my Cherokee 180 for $60 hr dry in 10 hour blocks and $50 per hour in 100 hour blocks(you get the plane at your home field for a month). Fuel is not counted in my equation so that cost is direct to the renter. I paid 32k for my airplane recently. Hangar is $250 per month, Insurance is almost $400 monthly for a "rental" airplane. So... First 10 hours of rental per month just covers direct cost to have it sit there. Add to that the 100 hour inspections at $600, the wear, tear and annuals on the airplane(Last annual from previous owner was 18k). IFR Certs, upgrades, maintenence.... and what you will find is that at $60 per hour it HELPS offset some of my costs. Now, my airplane is not at a busy FBO so it could fly more than it does but you get the idea. The other airplane I bought is a small Challenger 2 seat experimental. I sold fractional shares for $1,000($500 refundable if you quit the club without a buyer for your share) and $50 per month. Hourly rate is currently $45 per hour wet and will be going down in the near future. This plane is cheap to fly and cheap to maintain. Being an experimental helps because you do not have to use approved parts or an A&P. Also, an overhaul on the Rotax is under 2k. Not sure if that helps but I doubt flying will get cheaper as the costs are huge for owners. JOE
 
There are many factors that people have stated here already.

One contributing factor in places where the weather is lousy....its kind of like operating a golf course or ski resort. You have to make enough money to sustain the business for the year when you only get 6 months of steadily busy business.

Also, as long as AVGas remains in the price range it's in, there is no change in sight.

Gotta figure most planes are burning $30/hour in just fuel (rough estimate).

Engine Rebuild, and other maintenance problems over time go into that cost as well. Prices can easily get higher without getting lower
 
I don't understand why they can't make a 172 today using the blueprints of the 172 from 30 years ago. Of course a few things will need to be updated, but we don't need all the fancy gadgets and IFR stuff. Just put in a basic six-pack and two radios, maybe a cheap little GPS that has a direct funtion on it. They make hand helds that would be fine for $500 or so, just make that into a panel version. No reason why they can't mass produce these things and sell them cheap, like fancy SUV cheap.
 
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