When will the cost of flying go down?

[tonyw]

Probably more than you think.

Yeah, if you live in your parent's house or something.

Let's crunch the numbers, shall we?

$30K a year works out to $2500 a month BEFORE taxes.

Around here, you're going to pay at least $1500 or so a month for a two bedroom apartment. There's $750 gone even if you get a roommate.

You gotta eat, so let's say that you spend another $200 on food. This of course, means that you're not eating out, ever. Even a $5 footlong will cost you more than half of your daily allowance for food.

How are you going to get to the airport to fly the plane? Airports generally don't have public transportation going to them, so you're driving. Let's say that your parents gave you a beater. Well, at least your car is already paid for. But you've got to insure it, and that will run you around $100 a month.

We're at $1050 a month on a $2500 gross income already.

Now let's say you fly twice a week, and you manage to find a way to get it done for $100 an hour, including your instructor. That's another $800.

That takes you to $1850 on a $2500 gross income.

So, you've got to pay for everything else -- taxes, clothing, health insurance, gas, utlities, etc -- with $650 a month.

Ain't happening.

 

[cuy]

Pardon my interjection, but here is my take on the issue of the high cost of flying.

They way i see it, I do not consider the high cost of flying as a surprise, given that flying, much like owning a boat or other things are usually and have been a more of an upper middle class thing as someone here has previously posted.

Now i do not want to offend people or be purposely contrary, but I think that there are some benefits to the high cost of flying. First off, think about how the high cost of flying creates a kind of "barrier to entry." The reason i find this cost barrier particularly interesting is because it separates us (well most of us at least), the people who actually enjoy aviation and have a passion for flying, from some guy who just wants to play pilot and "be cool." I think that the high cost, causes people to think twice about flying and separates the passionate from the "cool guys."

Now, on the other hand, I, along with many on this board think that flying should be cheaper. BUT (yes, you heard me right :yup I also acknowledge that it is likely to go up rather than down in the future. There are many factors that go into this rising trend in cost, but for the most part, I would have to agree with what people have already said on this thread.

I think that if flying were cheaper, there would be a helluva lot more pilots zipping out of pilot mills like irritated fire ants swarming out of their hole. And consquently, there would be a lot more pilots competing for the same job. Think of it in positive light. I am not asking you to accept it, but to look on the other side. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CAP_Flyer]

Don't forget that folded into that $145+/hr for a 172 at a flight school also includes things like facility overhead costs. I rent a 1980 172P for $90/hr wet on the tach. My PPL CFI cost me $35/hr and he almost never charged me more than 2 hours a lesson even being together for 3 or more hours. So it worked out to being around $120/hr on the clock with an instructor. I belong to a non-profit flying club that doesn't need to enfold administrative costs into the rental rate of the plane.

A Part 141 flight school on the other side of the field will rent their older model Skyhawks for $212/hr on the clock with an instructor. They have offices and hangars to pay for, not to mention they ARE in the business of making a profit.

That all drives the cost of flying up, ESPECIALLY in training.

 

[nkoenig]

Yeah, if you live in your parent's house or something.

Let's crunch the numbers, shall we?

$30K a year works out to $2500 a month BEFORE taxes.

Around here, you're going to pay at least $1500 or so a month for a two bedroom apartment. There's $750 gone even if you get a roommate.

You gotta eat, so let's say that you spend another $200 on food. This of course, means that you're not eating out, ever. Even a $5 footlong will cost you more than half of your daily allowance for food.

How are you going to get to the airport to fly the plane? Airports generally don't have public transportation going to them, so you're driving. Let's say that your parents gave you a beater. Well, at least your car is already paid for. But you've got to insure it, and that will run you around $100 a month.

We're at $1050 a month on a $2500 gross income already.

Now let's say you fly twice a week, and you manage to find a way to get it done for $100 an hour, including your instructor. That's another $800.

That takes you to $1850 on a $2500 gross income.

So, you've got to pay for everything else -- taxes, clothing, health insurance, gas, utlities, etc -- with $650 a month.

Ain't happening.

Actually it did happen. You just have to know how to manage your money. I don't know why ANYONE would pay 1500 a month on rent. In my area rent on a brand new 2 bedroom at the time was 700 month. I was paying $116 for a 172R wet plus $35 for instructor. Also had a company truck no fuel, insurance, or payments. Everybody has different situations so your little breakdown is inaccurate.

 

[gomntwins]

Actually it did happen. You just have to know how to manage your money. I don't know why ANYONE would pay 1500 a month on rent. In my area rent on a brand new 2 bedroom at the time was 700 month. I was paying $116 for a 172R wet plus $35 for instructor. Also had a company truck no fuel, insurance, or payments. Everybody has different situations so your little breakdown is inaccurate.

Costs all depend on where you live. I could argue I don't know why anyone would pay 700 dollars a month on a 2 bedroom apartment... I only pay 320 at the moment and it's very nice/clean. The last place I lived I rented a 2 bedroom house for 250 that was old but also very nice. At the same time, I've lived a lot of places a lot more expensive. I moved down to Phoenix for a number of years and was taken aback by spending 600 on a 1 bedroom while my neighbor was amazed at how great of a deal the place was after moving from socal.

There are still great deals in flying. You can find a lot in small town flying clubs in the midwest. I did the majority of my flight training in a flying club 172 that was $40.00 a tach hour wet 6 years ago. Granted, costs have went up, it's up to $50.00 last I heard (still wet tach time and has a GPS) which was 6 months ago. Instruction was a little hit or miss- not on quality but on scheduling, my instructor worked every other week at netjets but only charged me $20.00 an hour.

Deals are out there... you just need to look outside the box, be able to network a bit, and be able to move anywhere in the U.S. You'll find training for a lot less money than any FBO I've ever heard of. From my experience the best deals in aviation you won't find online (in fact in the club I was in there were about 30 of us, about 5 of us actually flew, and I think only 2-3 of us owned a computer-- most were old school farmers). A lot of the best deals are with the clubs that truly aren't in it for the money. Often they won't pay to support a website, have no desire to 'recruit' anybody (you have to hit up the airports and find them by word of mouth... I can think of 4 off the top of my head that are still sub $60.00 an hour for a plane-- one is only $30.00 an hour wet for an aeronca champ) Non of the 4 flying clubs I'm thinking of have a website or advertise in any way. The one I belonged to I found by word of mouth.

 

[ChasenSFO]

I think its kind of like this girl I went to high school with, just when you think its going to go down, nothing happens. And nothing will.

 

[PGT]

I think its kind of like this girl I went to high school with, just when you think its going to go down, nothing happens. And nothing will.

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

 

[tonyw]

Actually it did happen. You just have to know how to manage your money. I don't know why ANYONE would pay 1500 a month on rent.

Because that's actually cheap for the area?

If you live in West Bumble, yeah, you can get a nice place for $300 a month. Try doing that in New York or LA.

 

[falconvalley]

I blame most of it on Avgas. And Avgas isn't coming down as much as unleaded because it's produced less often.

 

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Because that's actually cheap for the area?

If you live in West Bumble, yeah, you can get a nice place for $300 a month. Try doing that in New York or LA.

Hell yea to that! Up here in North Jersey, good luck finding an 1 room apartment for less than 900$!

 

[stesta5074]

Well yeah, that is kinda what I was getting at. The price of making the plane is probably 25%
of the price they actually end up charing because of all the other paperwork/insurance things that are involved. I am thinking there has to be a way to eliminate all of that stuff and just pay for the plane.

Reminds me of a question my CFI asked me:
"How does an airplane fly?"

I answered that is was a combination of Newtonian and Bernoulli forces, etc etc...

He said, "No, because the FAA has issued it an airworthiness certificate."

 

[little_cricket]

I don't really care about the age of the airplane as long as it is maintained well and is safe. That's why I don't really understand why some of these schools and clubs just fall all over themselves to buy these new airplanes. IMHO, they're just limiting their overall market, driving people such as myself to seek out clubs offering more affordable aircraft.

Anybody know any good clubs in SoCal, Orange County or North San Diego???