What's the deal with anti-Leather jackets?

PCL_128 said:
I'd wager that you'd have a very hard time finding a single passenger that thinks the traditional uniform is unprofessional, but you'd easily find quite a few that are uneasy with the leather jacket look. It all comes down to familiarity.
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And I think that you would have a hard time finding people that really care either way. That's my point.
 
PCL_128 said:
...PanAm uniforms (the origin of the traditional air line pilot uniform) weren't modeled after the outfits that the Army Air Corps pilots wore in their WWI biplanes, they were modeled after the uniforms of Navy Officers. Why? Because they looked elegant and professional, which was exactly the image that PanAm wanted to portray for their new luxurious flying boat service. They broke away from the leather jacket precisely because it didn't portray the image that they wanted of elegance and professionalism.
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And now you're an expert on the thoughts of Pan Am management 50 years ago. :whatever:
 
SteveC said:
And I think that you would have a hard time finding people that really care either way. That's my point.
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I already know people that care either way. I think if you ask around with your family and friends that fly frequently that you'll find that many of them also have an opinion on the matter. People notice more about the pilots than you'd think.
 
Wow.. Sorry I started this thread.. :)

I guess I've missed out on the past discussions.. :)

I hat the hat and will not wear it until I made to do so.. I don't care what John Q. Public thinks I should be wearing.. Everytime I run into John Q. Public I get asked:

"Do you drive an ambulance?"
"Are you a security guard?"
"I appreciate your service to our country..."

All of this without the leather jacket.. :)

I am with greaper.. My pops writes about 25K on his medical, hasn't worn a hat since EAL and pimps the jacket in a manner Fonz would be proud of..

I'm not worried about what people think, I was just curious to see some reasons behind the "bunk" of the leather jacket..

It's funny, if we all cared what others thought, every single one of us wouldn't be flying period, much less at the airlines we're at.. Because anyone can find someone who hates X, Y, Z airline - be it American, Air Tran, Southwest, etc..

I have modeled myself after two of the most picture airline guys I know..

The both wore the leather jackets and didn't like the hat.. :)
 
I'd say the blazer is 'classier' than the leather, both convey a different image. The leather is less imposing and more 'friendly'. I don't think its a lack of professionalism however. The worst "look" is when one of the pilots is in the blazer and the other is in leather. That sticks out in my mind more than a pilot wearing leather vs a blazer.

That is why you see "friendly southwest" sporting the leather, and "classy international legacy" sporting the Blazer. I think it reflects more on the corporate image than the professionalism of the pilot.

FYI, per the CAL FOM the hat and blazer is required year-round for international crews.
 
My .02$



The hat looks stupid.

Once upon a time, when you were the captian of a ship that happend to fly it made some sense to stick with a nautical theme. 80 years later, it's just silly.



IMHO, beyond a basic level of dress and grooming, profesionalism has nothing to do with the style of clothing worn. I personally care very little about where you bought you shirt, or how much you paid for it. Heck, even the US Navy has done away with uniforms when at sea. Everybody wears coveralls, and a baseball hat.

The tradtion of wearing a jacket and tie at all times comes from England, where it is cool and damp 50 weeks of the year. Wearing a suit on a 135 deg ramp in PHX is just silly.



I think a leather jacket looks just fine, and it far more comfortable too.
 
PCL_128 said:
I'm sure that FlyChicaga is an extremely professional pilot, but I wouldn't think so by looking at him when he walks up to the gate. The passengers don't see your professionalism on the flight deck, they only see your appearance. You could be the most professional pilot at the company on the flight deck, but if you walk up to the gate unshaven, with no tie, baggy pants, a windbreaker, and a mohawk, then the passengers are going to think you're the most unprofessional pilot they've ever seen.
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We are discussing leather jackets and hats, not hygiene and hairstyles. Do not sit here and associate me with a lack of professionalism, and make the assumption that I do not shave, wear baggy pants, have scuffed shoes and a mohawk (or fauxhawk even).

You didn't say it exactly, but that is what you seem to be implying.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I think a short sleeve shirt with a tie is much worse.
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:yeahthat:

That just screams rent a cop to me.

SteveC said:
I spent twenty + years as a (very) frequent flier, the last ten or so of those I was also a general aviation pilot. I didn't care, at all, what the airline pilots were wearing. Seriously.
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:yeahthat:

I've been one of those "elite" fliers for about ten years now and I really don't give a rat's ass about what the pilots are wearing. I want them to get me to where I'm going safely and on time. They could be wearing pink silk boxers and tutus for all I care as long as they do that.
 
FlyChicaga said:
We are discussing leather jackets and hats, not hygiene and hairstyles. Do not sit here and associate me with a lack of professionalism, and make the assumption that I do not shave, wear baggy pants, have scuffed shoes and a mohawk (or fauxhawk even).

You didn't say it exactly, but that is what you seem to be implying.
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I say that I'm sure you're extremely professional, and you take that as an insult? :confused: The part about mohawks and windbreakers wasn't in reference to you, and I think you know that. Relax.
 
FlyChicaga said:
We are discussing leather jackets and hats, not hygiene and hairstyles. Do not sit here and associate me with a lack of professionalism, and make the assumption that I do not shave, wear baggy pants, have scuffed shoes and a mohawk (or fauxhawk even).

You didn't say it exactly, but that is what you seem to be implying.
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did you drive your schwinn to work?:D



oh no that's right it was your skateboard!
 
I received and started wearing my leather jacket...and will keep doing so.

In my first year, I was against the leather jacket. I thought the traditional blazer, hat & overcoat were the way to go.

While they do "look" sharp, they are not the most practical articles to carry around on a 4-day trip. WAY too much crap to carry.

This year, for me, it's the leather jacket because it's MUCH more practical than carrying around two coats...and trying to store them in the CRJ.

But, that's just me.

As for what the PAX think of my uniform.... well....they can think whatever their hearts desire. But, until there's a study done to show that the leather-jacket wearing pilot is less safe than the blazer-wearing pilot....I think it matters not what the PAX think.

If a passenger - seriously - walks away from a flight because one or both pilots are wearing a leather jacket - then good luck to them with therapy.

Seriously.

Just my $0.02.

R2F
 
The best part of this thread was the NWA pilot's letter to the MEC that said that there were "international sensitivities" over wearing a "bomber jacket".
 
PCL_128 said:
Just dug out an old email that the former NWA ALPA Council 20 (DTW) Chairman wrote to the company about their desire to allow leather jackets for the pilots. He perfectly sums up exactly why these abominations are a mistake. The letter is addressed from Chairman Ray Miller to Chief Pilot Pete Moore. I've added emphasis to certain parts:

Pete:

I can't believe you think that any pilot (after taking HUGE pay
reductions, gutted work rules, and a devastated retirement benefit
would want to spend $350-400 for anything with a NWA logo on it!!!
In my opinion, your priority, as the Managing Director of Flying
should be to ensure NWA provides our pilots with a respectable
income, workrules, and benefits, including an acceptable
retirement. I (personally) think wearing a leather jacket
diminishes our image as professionals, which may be the intent.

While I wore a leather flight jacket in the military, NWA is an
AIRLINE. Northwest management should consider the international
sensitivities to our pilots wearing something designed after a
"bomber" jacket. I prefer a white shirt, a black tie, and a uniform
jacket with gold stripes to reflect our professional status. I do
not want to appear in public as a Greyhound bus driver or a
military wantabee. On the other hand, I do realize for our pilots
to expect to be treated as professionals by management, is, indeed,
indulging in a fantasy. I have been waiting over 21 years for that
at NWA.

With regard to leather flight jackets, put me down as simply "NO
THANKS".

Put me (and all pilots)down for: MORE pay; BETTER workrules and
benefits.

Regards,


Ray Miller
DTW A330 CA
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You know, after reading it again, I think the biggest push of Mr. Millers issue is the cost.. Then there are other reasons why they should not have leather jackets..

BTW.. Who cares what Ray Miller thinks? I wouldn't care if Captain Prater himself said "Leather jackets are baaaad..."

If I still had the option to wear it, I'd wear it..
 
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