What's the deal with anti-Leather jackets?

You're supposed to look like a pilot, not like the Fonz.
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Really? Well I haven't seen a leather jacket wearing pilot yet that looked like the fonze.

Because perception is reality, and the flying public's perception of what a pilot should look like is blazer, trousers, shirt, tie, and hat. It's been the same uniform for three-quarters of a century. Stop trying to mess with it. It works, and it's what the public expects to see.
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Ok whatever we do... I mean no matter what... lets make sure we do exactly the same thing they did 50 years ago. Whether it works or not is debatable depending on which angle you take. Piloting used to be a career of what was seemingly white collar professionals, now it seems they have been neglected and turned into blue collar labor workers that drive heavy machinery. Kind of like a glorified truck drivers which I think is pathetic! I think in todays society some of these uniforms make us look like freaking cab drivers. Not cool. I want to look sharp and professional like a frigging doctor or lawyer, and I have a hard time thinking the only blazer and the hat really do that. Granted thats not to say that the leather jacket really makes or breaks the outfit.

Maybe that is what the public expects to see, and then again maybe if we tossed them something better they might appreciate it even more. However if we stick with the norm thats not going to happen.

All the southwest pilots I have seen look pretty sharp in the leather jacket. I think also in addition to the outfit the behavior of the pilot has a huge effect on the publics perception. That being said, when a pilot is forced to wear such a gay looking cabby hat it hurts their self image. I know this has to be the case. That hat just looks frigging stupid as heck. The hat alone is goofier than CFI's wearing bars on their shoulders and thats pretty bad.

Well I guess my Dad who writes 25,000+ hours on his medical (he stopped counting about 10 years ago), can be lumped in with 20 year old RJ F/Os. He's been wearing the leather jacket for about 15 years and hasn't worn his hat in about 10. He'd probably spike his hair also if he didn't keep cutting it shorter as it gets grayer.
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Rock on brother!

I personally think the leather jacket looks fine. Regardless of my thoughts on that, the stupid frickin hat needs to go the way of the dodo...
 
aloft said:
Man, you're sleeping through this class, too.
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Yeah, I heard you the first time, but PanAm uniforms (the origin of the traditional air line pilot uniform) weren't modeled after the outfits that the Army Air Corps pilots wore in their WWI biplanes, they were modeled after the uniforms of Navy Officers. Why? Because they looked elegant and professional, which was exactly the image that PanAm wanted to portray for their new luxurious flying boat service. They broke away from the leather jacket precisely because it didn't portray the image that they wanted of elegance and professionalism. It's the same reason that PanAm told hotels that their pilots were not to ever have to lift their own bags and carry them to their rooms. Rather than try to carry on this tradition of elegance, it seems that many pilots today would rather sink to the lowest common denominator and become just another average Joe doing a common job. Sorry, but I'd rather stick to tradition and make this profession look as good as possible. The leather jacket doesn't portray the proper image.
 
I am all about the elegant professional look... However I am just not to sure todays outfit is cutting it at least at some airlines here in the US. The Emirates jacket is pretty nice I must admit. I just don't want to look like a taxi driver. I would much more prefer the regal professional look - and for now, I think in some instances the black leather jacket outdoes what we currently have - in many instances a taxi driver look...
 
skycowboy said:
I am all about the elegant professional look... However I am just not to sure todays outfit is cutting it at least at some airlines here in the US. The Emirates jacket is pretty nice I must admit. I just don't want to look like a taxi driver. I would much more prefer the regal professional look - and for now, I think in some instances the black leather jacket outdoes what we currently have - in many instances a taxi driver look...
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Where do you see taxi drivers wearing what pilots wear? Taxi drivers are wearing jeans and a t-shirt in many cases. Even limo drivers don't have any stripes, so it can't be argued that we look like them either. I've never seen the Emirates uniform. Have a pic?
 
how 'bout this....

who gives a damn. there's more important things in this industry than "oh he's wearing a leather jacket he's a tool"

i already regret wasting the 30 seconds of my life to write on this ridiculous post. and don't reply to it because i'm not going back to this one..
 
Just dug out an old email that the former NWA ALPA Council 20 (DTW) Chairman wrote to the company about their desire to allow leather jackets for the pilots. He perfectly sums up exactly why these abominations are a mistake. The letter is addressed from Chairman Ray Miller to Chief Pilot Pete Moore. I've added emphasis to certain parts:

Pete:

I can't believe you think that any pilot (after taking HUGE pay
reductions, gutted work rules, and a devastated retirement benefit
would want to spend $350-400 for anything with a NWA logo on it!!!
In my opinion, your priority, as the Managing Director of Flying
should be to ensure NWA provides our pilots with a respectable
income, workrules, and benefits, including an acceptable
retirement. I (personally) think wearing a leather jacket
diminishes our image as professionals, which may be the intent.

While I wore a leather flight jacket in the military, NWA is an
AIRLINE. Northwest management should consider the international
sensitivities to our pilots wearing something designed after a
"bomber" jacket. I prefer a white shirt, a black tie, and a uniform
jacket with gold stripes to reflect our professional status. I do
not want to appear in public as a Greyhound bus driver or a
military wantabee. On the other hand, I do realize for our pilots
to expect to be treated as professionals by management, is, indeed,
indulging in a fantasy. I have been waiting over 21 years for that
at NWA.

With regard to leather flight jackets, put me down as simply "NO
THANKS".

Put me (and all pilots)down for: MORE pay; BETTER workrules and
benefits.

Regards,


Ray Miller
DTW A330 CA
 
I spent twenty + years as a (very) frequent flier, the last ten or so of those I was also a general aviation pilot. I didn't care, at all, what the airline pilots were wearing. Seriously.

I can't speak for what other passengers notice or don't notice, and I'm not quite sure how others here can be so sure (without some kind of statistically accurate data) of what they think or perceive. Omniscience wasn't in my college curriculum.

:confused:
 
PCL_128 said:
Because perception is reality, and the flying public's perception of what a pilot should look like is blazer, trousers, shirt, tie, and hat. It's been the same uniform for three-quarters of a century. Stop trying to mess with it. It works, and it's what the public expects to see.
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Yeah, I'm still waiting on that public opinion poll I requested the LAST time this discussion was roiling. I have yet to see a "the flying public thinks that airline pilots should look like XXX" with percentages after it. ALPA's got better things to do, and the airlines really don't care. Fox News might be a good candidate to get that one going.

Until I see said poll, the above is solely an OPINION, not a fact of what the airline public expects.
 
greaper007 said:
Well I guess my Dad who writes 25,000+ hours on his medical (he stopped counting about 10 years ago), can be lumped in with 20 year old RJ F/Os. He's been wearing the leather jacket for about 15 years and hasn't worn his hat in about 10. He'd probably spike his hair also if he didn't keep cutting it shorter as it gets grayer.
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So PCL is greaper's dad unprofessional?

P.S. His dad makes more on a trip then you make a whole month.
 
Gonzo said:
So PCL is greaper's dad unprofessional?
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I'm not going to directly attack the guy's dad. That just wouldn't be right. Besides, the question isn't really whether you are professional, the question is whether you appear professional to the public. Again, perception is reality. I'm sure that FlyChicaga is an extremely professional pilot, but I wouldn't think so by looking at him when he walks up to the gate. The passengers don't see your professionalism on the flight deck, they only see your appearance. You could be the most professional pilot at the company on the flight deck, but if you walk up to the gate unshaven, with no tie, baggy pants, a windbreaker, and a mohawk, then the passengers are going to think you're the most unprofessional pilot they've ever seen. This is all about appearance and perception, which is the only thing the passengers have to judge you on.
 
PCL_128 said:
You could be the most professional pilot at the company on the flight deck, but if you walk up to the gate unshaven, with no tie, baggy pants, a windbreaker, and a mohawk, then the passengers are going to think you're the most unprofessional pilot they've ever seen.
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That I can agree with. I don't think passenger see a guy with a leather jacket and think the same thing, though. Same with the hat. I haven't seen nor heard anything to indicate that the flying public really cares if you wear a blazer, leather jacket or hat. Heck, half of them are dressed like they just rolled out of bed anyway. A couple of decades ago, I'd probably agree with what you're saying. Now, I think public opinion has changed. If it hadn't, SWA wouldn't be selling out flights left and right b/c the public would consider their pilots unprofessional. Don't trust your packages on FedEx, either. They wear leather jackets AND fly freight, so they must be maverick cowboys! :)

BTW, my wife says the Pinnacle hat looks dumb, and she's a member of the flying public.....
 
PCL_128 said:
It's the same reason that PanAm told hotels that their pilots were not to ever have to lift their own bags and carry them to their rooms.
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I tell you what, you get someone to carry my bags everywhere I go and I'll where whatever you want. This thread appears to be one more reason to go corporate
 
SteveC said:
I'm still trying to figure out how you know what those other people think.

:confused:
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I'm sure that some are perfectly ok with it, but plenty of others aren't. I know from asking family and friends that many think the leather looks ridiculous and unprofessional Why not wear the uniform that everyone expects and feels comfortable with rather than the uniform that only some feel comfortable with?
 
Taxi drivers are wearing jeans and a t-shirt in many cases. Even limo drivers don't have any stripes, so it can't be argued that we look like them either.
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I was thinking more along the lines of like a metro bus driver... Stripes or not, some uniforms - especially punctuated by the hat look to me that way, can't speak for everyone...

I've never seen the Emirates uniform. Have a pic?
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Well crap.. can't find one... the black is very black, and there is some nice gold... reminds me of a Navy officers black uniform.

BTW, my wife says the Pinnacle hat looks dumb, and she's a member of the flying public.....
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Your wife is correct...

Now, I think public opinion has changed
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Public opinion is not a static thing... it too changes over time. I have never thought anything horrible about the leather jacket.

This thread appears to be one more reason to go corporate
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Heck yeah... Comfortable golf pants and a golf shirt with a name tag...

Long story short, who cares... If some want to wear the jacket, wear the jacket. I can't foresee the pax jumping ship because the captain is wearing leather. Furthurmore, they only have to deal with it for about 5 total minutes as they watch the flight crew arrive and leave... Thirdly, if they are goofy enough to be so concerned by the variety of jacket the crew is wearing they need to get a life and or drive to their destination of choice. I think the crews opinions should matter too. If the crew thinks the blazer and the hat looks like crap, then I think their opinion should mean something. Usually when there is this much bitching and concern, it is an indication that a paradigm shift is needed.

I frankly think the sweater and the epaulets looks sharp...

how about a long wool/cashmere coat, think it would look professional as well as sharp?
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Yeah I think it might... I really do...
 
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