What is a scab in the airline pilot world?

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If you elect to become a non-member of the union, you're still bound by the contractural obligations between DALPA and Delta while paying 'contract admin' fees that are pretty much equal to what you'd be paying in dues.


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Just curious...
Is there any benifit to being a non-member? If you fly struck work are you considered a scab? Are you looked down upon by union member pilots?
 
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Just curious...
Is there any benifit to being a non-member? If you fly struck work are you considered a scab? Are you looked down upon by union member pilots?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, at least in GA, you still have to pay the dues
Yes, of course
Yes, but not nearly as bad as number 2
 
There were some AA flight attendants who scabbed in 1993. The list of those individuals is readily available to those who want that info. Those who scabbed are treated like sh$t, they are not spoken to in the crew lounge, and the only conversation onboard the airplanes are the required briefings, and any words necessary to complete job duties.

When we were going through negotiations in 2001, I was a new-hire (on probationary status because of my company transfer). A strike was authorized, and I was prepared to strike. The company tried to instill the fear of probation in us, but even as probationaries we were still protected!


Please excuse the choppiness of this posting, I had to cut-and-paste from an Adobe file (with text wrapped around picutres), what a pain in the who-ha!


Here are a couple personal stories of people who have scabbed, and why they wouldn't do it again: These were published in the APFA publication 'Skyword':

Carlos Cabral accepted a trip from JFK Crew Schedule early on November 22, 1993. The strike ended on the afternoon of the same day after he had already accepted the trip.

What would you say to strikers who are still mad at you?

They have reason to be mad because I did not do my part in striking with everyone else. I can understand why people might have those emotions. I was working another job at the time, as well, and was too busy to stay informed. I take full responsibility for the decision that I made during the strike.

What have you done since 1993 to be a better Union member?

I rejoined the Union by paying the initiation fee again. I have
tried to stay informed of anything that is going on in the
Union. I call the HotLine. I try to talk to new people and tell
them not to be afraid or intimidated by the Company. During
the recent phone strike with the Verizon telephone workers, I
spoke with a friend of mine who works for Verizon, and he was
afraid of going on strike. I told him of my experience as a Flight Attendant in 1993 and informed him that it was not worth any free taxi ride to work or promised dinner by the company if he went to work during a strike. I have started to wear my APFA Union pin and APFA luggage tag
as an expression of solidarity towards our efforts to achieve a
contract. I have also had conversations with other Flight
Attendants who crossed the picket line, and I think most of us
realize that our decision to work during the strike was not a good decision.

Why did you participate in our recent Labor Day leafleting?

I think it was an opportunity for other Flight Attendants during our contract negotiations. I believe it is important that during
our negotiations with AA management we, as Flight
Attendants, demonstrate through our ACTIONS that we support me to show all Flight Attendants and management that I was ready to support the Union and the Union. Thankfully, all of the Flight Attendants at JFK were
receptive to my participation in the Labor Day leafleting, and I
appreciated that.

Would you cross the picket line again?

No.

Mary Kay Welter worked a trip from London to Chicago on November 19, 1993.

What do you have to say to those striking Flight Attendants
who are still angry with you? Back in 1993, I was very self-absorbed. I thought the concerns of MY life were more important than 18,000 other Flight Attendants. I sincerely apologize. I learned that each voice does count and that we are all connected globally, spiritually, and in solidarity.

What have you done to be a better Union member?

I have made the conscious choice to be an informed APFA member. I paid restitution to the Union. But recently, I have had a very profound experience that has helped others to learn from my horrific experience of crossing our
picket line in 1993. In a sort of karmic twist of fate, I had relocated to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh is US
Airways country and is a heavy Union town. In March 2000, the Flight Attendants of US Airways were in the midst of a 30-day cooling off period/contract countdown. A strike appeared to be imminent. I customarily ride the employee bus in Pittsburgh with many USAir Flight Attendants. In the days before their possible strike, I could see the anxiety in their faces on the bus. I began to have uncomfortable flashbacks of sorts to the days of our strike in November, 1993. Five days before the US Airways strike deadline, I acted on instinct and called a fellow Flight Attendant in Chicago who had friends at AFA, the Union representing US Airways Flight Attendants. Within one hour of this phone call, I received a follow-up call from an AFA representative who asked me to write a letter titled “Why I crossed the picket line...’‘ I took a deep breath and my heart kind of stopped because I had never done this before, but I wrote it and then faxed it to AFA. AFA immediately called me and asked me to speak at their big Union rally the night of their candlelight vigil before the strike deadline. I knew I had to do this even though I was terrified of
reliving the painful experience of my decision in 1993 during our strike. Five days later, I walked into an AFA Union hall filled with about 800 US Airways Flight Attendants wearing their green CHAOS T-shirts! I was so nervous I had to grip the podium to speak. No one knew why I had come. They had only seen on the program agenda my name and association with American Airlines. When I started reading my letter “Why I crossed the picket line…” you could hear a
pin drop in this room of 800. Fortunately, US Airways management and its Flight Attendants reached a last minute agreement and averted a strike. The next day an AFA representative called and told me that my speech the night before had been comforting to those individuals who were
“sitting on the fence” and nervous about going on strike. This
brought me some consolation knowing that maybe I had made
a small difference even though it had been agonizing for me to
remember the events in November 1993. If I could help educate others on such an unfortunate part of my history as a Flight Attendant, I would do so. But I have to respect those who are not open to this. We all, including myself, make our own choices and must live with these choices and be responsible for them.
 
Just curious, but once you have scabbed, is there any chance of "rehabilitation" by the union? For example, the persons profiled in the article above, since they seem to have repented and made amends, does that help their post-strike standing any or are they still treated as badly as any other scab?
 
[ QUOTE ]
There were some AA flight attendants who scabbed in 1993. The list of those individuals is readily available to those who want that info. Those who scabbed are treated like sh$t, they are not spoken to in the crew lounge, and the only conversation onboard the airplanes are the required briefings, and any words necessary to complete job duties.

When we were going through negotiations in 2001, I was a new-hire (on probationary status because of my company transfer). A strike was authorized, and I was prepared to strike. The company tried to instill the fear of probation in us, but even as probationaries we were still protected!


Please excuse the choppiness of this posting, I had to cut-and-paste from an Adobe file (with text wrapped around picutres), what a pain in the who-ha!


Here are a couple personal stories of people who have scabbed, and why they wouldn't do it again: These were published in the APFA publication 'Skyword':

Carlos Cabral accepted a trip from JFK Crew Schedule early on November 22, 1993. The strike ended on the afternoon of the same day after he had already accepted the trip.

What would you say to strikers who are still mad at you?

They have reason to be mad because I did not do my part in striking with everyone else. I can understand why people might have those emotions. I was working another job at the time, as well, and was too busy to stay informed. I take full responsibility for the decision that I made during the strike.

What have you done since 1993 to be a better Union member?

I rejoined the Union by paying the initiation fee again. I have
tried to stay informed of anything that is going on in the
Union. I call the HotLine. I try to talk to new people and tell
them not to be afraid or intimidated by the Company. During
the recent phone strike with the Verizon telephone workers, I
spoke with a friend of mine who works for Verizon, and he was
afraid of going on strike. I told him of my experience as a Flight Attendant in 1993 and informed him that it was not worth any free taxi ride to work or promised dinner by the company if he went to work during a strike. I have started to wear my APFA Union pin and APFA luggage tag
as an expression of solidarity towards our efforts to achieve a
contract. I have also had conversations with other Flight
Attendants who crossed the picket line, and I think most of us
realize that our decision to work during the strike was not a good decision.

Why did you participate in our recent Labor Day leafleting?

I think it was an opportunity for other Flight Attendants during our contract negotiations. I believe it is important that during
our negotiations with AA management we, as Flight
Attendants, demonstrate through our ACTIONS that we support me to show all Flight Attendants and management that I was ready to support the Union and the Union. Thankfully, all of the Flight Attendants at JFK were
receptive to my participation in the Labor Day leafleting, and I
appreciated that.

Would you cross the picket line again?

No.

Mary Kay Welter worked a trip from London to Chicago on November 19, 1993.

What do you have to say to those striking Flight Attendants
who are still angry with you? Back in 1993, I was very self-absorbed. I thought the concerns of MY life were more important than 18,000 other Flight Attendants. I sincerely apologize. I learned that each voice does count and that we are all connected globally, spiritually, and in solidarity.

What have you done to be a better Union member?

I have made the conscious choice to be an informed APFA member. I paid restitution to the Union. But recently, I have had a very profound experience that has helped others to learn from my horrific experience of crossing our
picket line in 1993. In a sort of karmic twist of fate, I had relocated to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh is US
Airways country and is a heavy Union town. In March 2000, the Flight Attendants of US Airways were in the midst of a 30-day cooling off period/contract countdown. A strike appeared to be imminent. I customarily ride the employee bus in Pittsburgh with many USAir Flight Attendants. In the days before their possible strike, I could see the anxiety in their faces on the bus. I began to have uncomfortable flashbacks of sorts to the days of our strike in November, 1993. Five days before the US Airways strike deadline, I acted on instinct and called a fellow Flight Attendant in Chicago who had friends at AFA, the Union representing US Airways Flight Attendants. Within one hour of this phone call, I received a follow-up call from an AFA representative who asked me to write a letter titled “Why I crossed the picket line...’‘ I took a deep breath and my heart kind of stopped because I had never done this before, but I wrote it and then faxed it to AFA. AFA immediately called me and asked me to speak at their big Union rally the night of their candlelight vigil before the strike deadline. I knew I had to do this even though I was terrified of
reliving the painful experience of my decision in 1993 during our strike. Five days later, I walked into an AFA Union hall filled with about 800 US Airways Flight Attendants wearing their green CHAOS T-shirts! I was so nervous I had to grip the podium to speak. No one knew why I had come. They had only seen on the program agenda my name and association with American Airlines. When I started reading my letter “Why I crossed the picket line…” you could hear a
pin drop in this room of 800. Fortunately, US Airways management and its Flight Attendants reached a last minute agreement and averted a strike. The next day an AFA representative called and told me that my speech the night before had been comforting to those individuals who were
“sitting on the fence” and nervous about going on strike. This
brought me some consolation knowing that maybe I had made
a small difference even though it had been agonizing for me to
remember the events in November 1993. If I could help educate others on such an unfortunate part of my history as a Flight Attendant, I would do so. But I have to respect those who are not open to this. We all, including myself, make our own choices and must live with these choices and be responsible for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, I'm gonna draw the line here. This "confession" by Carlos Cabral, sounds like he just got out of a communist indoctrination camp of some sort. WTF? The guy made a mistake, and now he's still got every 18-40 year old drink cart pusher at the airline pissed off at him, lest he successfully complete "re-education camp" and sign the confession?

Not only do the questions look scary, but so do the answers......akin to the Vietnam POW TV interviews......

I can't believe some of the union whining I'm seeing here from some people. Yes, there are definate and true grievences against management that should be addressed and fought by the union, but when the union begins acting like the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia towards its members, it sinks to the same level as the evil management it's meant to counter, just for different reasons.

I don't care one bit for the Lorenzo's out there and other current and former airline CEOs that make hgh six-figure salaries at the expense of regional airline pilots that barely make a living wage.

At the same time, I don't care for union leaders/members that try to strongarm or force other members to see things their way. If you have a good case or a good cause that everyone knows will affect them in some way, people will naturally join the fight in support of the collective effort. Alienating members by acting like the People's Republic of ALPA/APA/APFA (or whatever) certainly won't attract those to the party....many viewing it akin to being ordered to attend "mandatory fun".

MD
 
I wouldn't ever cross a picket line just because I would have to work with those people for the rest of my career and that would make for some interesting work situations, to put it mildly.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that I'd always agree with the guys running the union. And I'd still exercise my judgement and if I didn't agree with the union heads, I'd just stay at home and not go to work but I wouldn't attend any rallies or things like that.
 
Re: The ugly side of the airline industry

The only reason airline pilots have had such great benefits is because of the unions. Everyone has financial obligations and a strike is hard on everyone involved, some more than others. If you want the benefits that come from a powerful union, then you must also make sacrifices for that union when a job action becomes necessary. United we stand, divided we fall. Then we fail our own future, and the future of up and coming pilots (like many of us).
 
Re: The ugly side of the airline industry

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason airline pilots have had such great benefits is because of the unions. Everyone has financial obligations and a strike is hard on everyone involved, some more than others. If you want the benefits that come from a powerful union, then you must also make sacrifices for that union when a job action becomes necessary. United we stand, divided we fall. Then we fail our own future, and the future of up and coming pilots (like many of us).

[/ QUOTE ]

But the union isn't always right, same with the management. Each has it's own brand of self-serving attitude. What I mostly see are unions and management each trying to out-do the other in the gutter-politics game. Clean-up is needed on both sides.

Oddly enough, there are some companies that have unions and management that are both content, and seem to serve each other. Upper management of some unions and some companies could both serve to learn from this example.

MD
 
Re: The ugly side of the airline industry

Unions vary from industry to industry, there are some industries where you just kind of shake your head with what the unions try to pull off, or pressure members into.

That said, without them, as an industry of pilots, we would be steam rolled over again and again.
 
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drink cart pusher

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Drink cart pusher?

Whatever.

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Used in the same sense that cockpit crew are button pushers.
 
Damn, Daffy! Way to score points with "In Flight"!
smile.gif
 
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Damn, Daffy! Way to score points with "In Flight"!
smile.gif


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Yeah......making friends everywhere I go........
crazy.gif
 
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Used in the same sense that cockpit crew are button pushers.

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Understood
smile.gif
 
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Used in the same sense that cockpit crew are button pushers.

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Understood
smile.gif


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Cool. Which in the sense I put it in, I can shortly classify myself as a "button pusher/computer monitor" once at my new assignment back in the states. So the dig applies equally to me!
smile.gif
 
LOL I liked that one too!

The only one that ever made me really angry was when Bob Crandall called us $30,000-a-year-coke-machines. (Said during the 1993 negotiations. In 7 years my pay never even got CLOSE to $30,000!)

What bothers me is HOW a person says something, like I never got upset when people (especially old people) called me a 'stewardess', they didn't mean anything bad by it. But I do get bothered when we're called over-paid waitresses, and it's suggested that we are uneducated, stupid ditzes who can't get a real job.

Okay, sorry, off my soapbox, sorry for derailing the thread.......
 
[ QUOTE ]
LOL I liked that one too!

The only one that ever made me really angry was when Bob Crandall called us $30,000-a-year-coke-machines. (Said during the 1993 negotiations. In 7 years my pay never even got CLOSE to $30,000!)

What bothers me is HOW a person says something, like I never got upset when people (especially old people) called me a 'stewardess', they didn't mean anything bad by it. But I do get bothered when we're called over-paid waitresses, and it's suggested that we are uneducated, stupid ditzes who can't get a real job.

Okay, sorry, off my soapbox, sorry for derailing the thread.......

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If you were waitressess, you'd be getting tips for the people you put up with on a given flight.

Passengers aren't what they used to be manners-wise. People used to actually get dressed up to ride on an airliner, once upon a time. Post-deregulation, when every nitwit Joe Six-Pack could now afford to fly, the deterioration of the airline pax began, and the crap F/As had to put up with (not to mention flight crews) also began.............
 
Speaking of that, we had some passengers into LAS last night that were grabbing stuff off of the drink cart and making a huge nuisance of themselves to the flight attendants.

During deplaning, one of the passengers says "Hey pilot, get on the PA and say 'Janies got your bag' so she doesn't freak ok? Hurry because she's probably looking for it now."

I gave her a sarcastic "Suuuuuuure..." and she got pretty pissed that I didn't heed her request.

My favorite is when I stood in line for 15 minutes in FLL at Miami Subs at the airport and finally get to the counter. A person walks up and taps me on the shoulder as I'm about to order, shows me her frequent flyer and says "I'm a silver medallion frequent flyer on your airline, I want to cut in line because it's too long".

"Umm, I'm afraid not ma'am"

Look of shock in her eyes.

Ten years ago this type of behavior was a rareity, but it's a lot more common now.
 
[ QUOTE ]
A person walks up and taps me on the shoulder as I'm about to order, shows me her frequent flyer and says "I'm a silver medallion frequent flyer on your airline, I want to cut in line because it's too long".


[/ QUOTE ]

She has some monster "nads" to even ask that.
 
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