Go get 'em Tiger!
What good are strike votes?
- Thread starter A1TAPE
- Start date
Go get 'em Tiger!
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Astronomically low, Marianas Trench low, Kola Superdeep Borehole low.
If Biden wouldn't let the railroad workers strike last year, then no president will ever let a major airline walk off the job. Any one of the big four parking their airplanes would cripple the economy to such an extent that it can't be allowed to happen.
ALPA guys will jump in and say that it's been allowed in the past. But all of those (Spirt being the exception) happened in the 90s or earlier. Since then consolidation has made major airlines so big that their shutdown would have global implications. Frontier, Sun Country, or a regional might be released but Delta never will.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
So not exactly US carrier/RLA type stuff, but what's going on with WestJet right now? Just saw the ALPA email, I honestly hadn't been tracking, other than knowing a lot of their folks are pissed (my barber lady has a cousin or something that flies for them, was telling me about it)
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
The holding company that owns them (and about twenty other airlines it seems) only cares about profit and not the operation.
roundout
VNAV monitor
Oh gosh. I wonder how that feels.
DeltaAlphaNovember
Well-Known Member
Are they mailing those out to all the APA members, or just a select few? I've not received mine yet.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
I may, or may not have told our principals which airlines were up for potential strike votes.
Does nothing but help solidify how important it is for them to have their own method of air travel.
But that aside, I’m not booking tickets on an airline where it’s gotten to a strike. I’d rather book at a place where crews are more likely to try to help us make connections and get in on time - also figure it helps the cause if I can redirect a few to other places.
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CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
I assume everyone will get it.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
I’ll take “legitimate reasons to criticize President Biden” for $200!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Quoted for truth. Of course the ALPA blowhards will laugh emoji you.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I mean it’s really the only leverage we have as organized labor. So we can mock it, or we can get out there and put on a show, and try to make enough headlines, and make enough travelers and corporate travel departments nervous…inject enough uncertainty… that the company sees a drop in future bookings, an increase in cancellations, and decides to speed up the process. Actually getting to self help isn’t the goal, it’s just one of the two possible outcomes of the RLA process. (The other being a signed CBA).
The RLA is really the problem here. It shouldn’t take 3…4…5+ years to negotiate a contract. It doesn’t take our companies that long to negotiate an aircraft order, or to negotiate for gate space, or to hedge fuel, or to contract with a construction company to build a fancy new headquarters campus.
They are taking ADVANTAGE of the indefinite timeline in the RLA to delay, not only to save money but also to weaken the resolve of a frustrated and impatient labor group. So we too must take advantage of what few arrows the RLA provides labor to try and move the ball closer to the end zone. (Sorry Doug)
What other choice does labor have?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Can’t argue with that, all true.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
69% of the time it works every time.
ClearedForOption
Psychiatric Help 5¢
Only @SlumTodd_Millionaire. Probably.
My answer would be this: The whole point of the RLA is to drive the two parties to a deal without disruption. The withdrawing of your labor, the strike, is the end game. Prior to it you have may steps that are designed to make the deal happen.
Direct Negotiations -> Mediation -> Binding Arbitration (if both parties agree) -> 30-Day Cooling-Off Period -> (*Presidential Emergency Board->) Self-Help.
*maybe.
During each of the steps there is a "off ramp" that leads to an agreement. That's the point... get an agreement.
So... most agreements are completed in the first two steps. Direct and Mediation. And many of the tools that the NMB can employ to make a deal happen "live" in mediation. Many of the so-called-games that both parties are accused of playing also happen during this step. From a technical standpoint (on both sides) the point as which you request mediation is very strategic in nature.
But ultimately, there is a pathway to self-help. When talking about negotiations basically the principal "tool" of the mediator is the fact that they controls the bargaining schedule, the location of the talks, and the agenda. The mediator can slow down or speed up the negotiating schedule based on their judgement as to what is necessary to reach agreement. Mediated talks can continue, sometimes for several years, until an agreement is reached or the mediator determines that continued talks are unlikely to lead to an agreement. At that point, one of the three NMB members may become more directly involved in the process to encourage more movement toward an agreement.
If and when the appointed NMB members determine that an impasse has occurred (This is where the makeup of the NMB matters, BTW!) and more negotiating sessions are not likely to be productive the Board can, normally at the request of one or both of the parties, issue a proffer of arbitration to both parties. It either leads to binding arbitration or a 30-day cooling-off period.
If either party rejects the offer for binding arbitration, the NMB will release the parties into a 30-day cooling-off period, although it has discretion as to when to start the 30 day clock. Contrary to its name, the 30-day cooling-off period is often the time of the greatest tension and most intense negotiations. Both parties must continue to adhere to the status-quo obligation. During this time, the NMB will often convene the two parties for extensive meetings in what is sometimes referred to as “super mediation.” Often the two sides meet around the clock, though this may not occur until the end of the 30-day period as the deadline approaches and pressure builds. We saw this basically play out during the most recent rail negotiation that made national news.
Finally, if the two parties are unable to reach an agreement by the end of the 30-day cooling-off period, they are free to engage in self-help actions.
So, yes, it is unlikely. The process is designed for it to be unlikely.
One of the biggest problems is that all the tools that labor has to keep the flowchart moving have been litigated away in the last 20-30 years thanks to a concerted anti-Union/anti-labor lobby and cultural war against labor to turn all of us worker-bees into good little pawns willing to sell our labor for less and less by using the strawman of "Public Sector Unions" in a continuous parade of horribles and waste. i.e. Unions are BAD. (They are not) They are going to ruin the country. (No, they aren't - they are responsible for the solid middle class.) You can be a Capitalist too. (No, you are labor. Don't let managemant trick you into false-ownership of things.)
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
This is right on. And without a progressive (sorry @SlumTodd_Millionaire) majority, with mainline Democrats now being so close to big business too, any modifications to the RLA are sure to be worse than what we have now.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Don’t just be angry at politicians who are close to business. Also be angry at irresponsible unions like the APA that have thumbed their nose at the law and had bad case law put on the books as a result.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
To be fair... several ALPA properties did some damage as well.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
True! Although I’d say nowhere near such a degree.
poser765
Well-Known Member
What specifically did they do? My APA lore isn’t all that strong.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
“Pilot partisan” is a topic of a certain amount of consternation at times. Though it’s somewhat refreshing to see my age and younger seemingly all aboard the union train.
