What can a NASA form do for you?

They WERE to help you get out of jail free as Doug stated. However NOT ANYMORE. As i was informed a few weeks ago... NASA forms have gone by the wayside because too many people were using them over and over, and over. etc etc. etc...

I'll try to find the link that says they aren't accepted anymore.

I'm still looking for it.. i know it was my Chief Pilot that told me this.
 
Hotice,

From 14 CFR 91.25:

"The Administrator of the FAA will not use reports submitted to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration under the Aviation Safety Reporting Program (or information derived therefrom) in any enforcement action except information concerning accidents or criminal offenses which are wholly excluded from the Program."
 
As Mr. Doug said, it can be used as "get out of jail free card" in most cases. However, you can't use it as you do something stupid intentional. ;)
 
Just because it says they can't use what you disclose on a NASA form against you doesn't mean the FAA can't collect the evidence they need/want in some other way.

I've filed two recently. One when I had a tire go flat in flight which left me disabled on the runway after landing, and the other when, presumably, ATC forgot to hand us off to another Center and then tried to blame it on us.

I regard the NASA as a method of self disclosure and critique without fearing repercussions through that particular medium. The FAA may still come after me, but hopefully they show some leniency when they consider that there I have done a self-critique and that I will learn from my own mistake.
 
Just because it says they can't use what you disclose on a NASA form against you doesn't mean the FAA can't collect the evidence they need/want in some other way.

I've filed two recently. One when I had a tire go flat in flight which left me disabled on the runway after landing, and the other when, presumably, ATC forgot to hand us off to another Center and then tried to blame it on us.

I regard the NASA as a method of self disclosure and critique without fearing repercussions through that particular medium. The FAA may still come after me, but hopefully they show some leniency when they consider that there I have done a self-critique and that I will learn from my own mistake.


Thanks for the above links and words from people. This is absolutly correct! YOU CAN STILL FILE THEM.. HOWEVER.. JUST BECUASE YOU FILE IT... DOES NOT MEAN that is was like how is used to be. Meaning.. If you filed it before the FAA came after you, then chances are you'll get a slap on the wrist and say thanks for fessing up to it (if you did something wrong).

Now.. YOu file it, and they will still say, THanks for the info, and they will then decide HOW SEVERE (if any) the FAA will throw the book at you.

This is my understanding of it. If I have an instance... I PROMISE YOU, i will still fill one out. WIth the hope that upon investigation, the FAA will show that the pilot "took great concern with truth and honesty to come to a factual finding of the incident".

THoughts?
 
Thanks for the above links and words from people. This is absolutly correct! YOU CAN STILL FILE THEM.. HOWEVER.. JUST BECUASE YOU FILE IT... DOES NOT MEAN that is was like how is used to be. Meaning.. If you filed it before the FAA came after you, then chances are you'll get a slap on the wrist and say thanks for fessing up to it (if you did something wrong).

Now.. YOu file it, and they will still say, THanks for the info, and they will then decide HOW SEVERE (if any) the FAA will throw the book at you.

I haven't heard anything like that about this program. There was an airline program that was similar (ASAP or something like that) that was put on haitus for a while, but I didn't hear anything about NASA ASRS program being changed.

To be honest, I think you got some bum information from someone that mixed up the two programs (which were similar in intent and execution). Any chance you can verify what you're saying here?
 
Additional information from the ASRS website:

Confidentiality and Incentives to Report

Pilots, air traffic controllers, flight attendants, mechanics, ground personnel, and others involved in aviation operations submit reports to the ASRS when they are involved in, or observe, an incident or situation in which aviation safety was compromised. All submissions are voluntary.

Reports sent to the ASRS are held in strict confidence. More than 715,000 reports have been submitted to date and no reporter's identity has ever been breached by the ASRS. ASRS de-identifies reports before entering them into the incident database. All personal and organizational names are removed. Dates, times, and related information, which could be used to infer an identity, are either generalized or eliminated.

The FAA offers ASRS reporters further guarantees and incentives to report. It has committed itself not to use ASRS information against reporters in enforcement actions. It has also chosen to waive fines and penalties, subject to certain limitations, for unintentional violations of federal aviation statutes and regulations which are reported to ASRS. The FAA's initiation, and continued support of the ASRS program and its willingness to waive penalties in qualifying cases is a measure of the value it places on the safety information gathered, and the products made possible, through incident reporting to the ASRS.

(bold added)

I think you got some bum info.


<edit to add more:>

Advisory Circular 00-46D

9. c.
The filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or occurrence involving a violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or the FAR is considered by FAA to be indicative of a constructive attitude. Such an attitude will tend to prevent future violations. Accordingly, although a finding of violation may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed if:

1. the violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;

2. the violation did not involve a criminal offense, or accident. or action under 49 U.S.C. Section 44709 which discloses a lack of qualification or competency, which is wholly excluded from this policy;

3. the person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to have committed a violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or any regulation promulgated there for a period of 5 years prior to the date of occurrence; and

4. the person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, he or she completed and delivered or mailed a written report of the incident or occurrence to NASA under ASRS. See paragraphs 5c and 7b.

I don't see any changes in the program.
 
I have filled out a NASA once pre 121 and numerous ASAPS for 121 flying.. I'm friends with our safety director and he encourages us to send them in for just about every thing you see go wrong.. He says that's the only way anything ever gets changed because otherwise most things just go un-noticed.. When you send them in, people HAVE to look at them, take notice and do something with them.. they aren't looking to violate anyone with them, just for ways to improve safety. When they start to see a trend, changes get made.

Every time I just get a letter about a month after filling one out stating: Thank you for you contribution to the aviation safety program, we have reviewed and documented this information, we will use this info to enhance safety yada, yada.. thank you and please continue to use the safety program etc..

Then it says No action taken at the bottom.

I have never sent one for any blatent intentional violations though.. so not sure how they would handle that.. probably depends on the severity.. I know with our ASAPS we have 24 hrs to send one and we are pretty much protected for anything non intentional.
 
Thanks for the above links and words from people. This is absolutly correct! YOU CAN STILL FILE THEM.. HOWEVER.. JUST BECUASE YOU FILE IT... DOES NOT MEAN that is was like how is used to be. Meaning.. If you filed it before the FAA came after you, then chances are you'll get a slap on the wrist and say thanks for fessing up to it (if you did something wrong).

Now.. YOu file it, and they will still say, THanks for the info, and they will then decide HOW SEVERE (if any) the FAA will throw the book at you.

This is my understanding of it. If I have an instance... I PROMISE YOU, i will still fill one out. WIth the hope that upon investigation, the FAA will show that the pilot "took great concern with truth and honesty to come to a factual finding of the incident".

THoughts?
We're still waiting for you to find where it says what you said about the program being over. My bet is you won't.

You got some lousy info. My guess is that whoever told you didn't understand the program to begin with (there is a TON of misinformation out there) and when he found out that it wasn't 100% guaranteed that you would get out of it if you buzzed your next door neighbor and crashed into his house, figured the program had changed.
 
I have not had to use a NASA form. If I need to use one, what could it do?

As others have noted, IF you believe you may have erred or an error occurred, file a NASA. It will not protect you from a violation but it can protect you from FAA action.. ie, the FAA can file a violation on you but not suspend your ticket.

It is to your benefit to file regardless as you have nothing to lose.

Willful acts, illegal acts, etc are not protected.

The data is 'sanitized' and used to create a real functional picture of the aviation world. The problem reportedly is they are drowning in filings making it more difficult to sift through and find the major problems.

IF in doubt, FILE!
 
We're still waiting for you to find where it says what you said about the program being over. My bet is you won't.

You got some lousy info. My guess is that whoever told you didn't understand the program to begin with (there is a TON of misinformation out there) and when he found out that it wasn't 100% guaranteed that you would get out of it if you buzzed your next door neighbor and crashed into his house, figured the program had changed.



I looked for hours, and to no avail. The CP was not in today, however I did talk to other people, and him being retired 121, they do figure he was confused about the 121 safe reporting system and the NASA form. So they think he was wrong. So oh well.. Thats why its a forum, we all get to learn..
 
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