What are the DCA realities?

[JAM]

A couple of points/clarifications:

1) DCA is sending instructors to New Bedford because it is a cyclical operation. Just like the Jax operation, the start of the semester/quarter system dictates when the needs for new CFIs will be greatest. Now happens to be one of those times. 80% seems high; probably more like 50% of a standz class will actually be sent 'north.'

2) I also trained for about 180 hrs (already had pvt) here and spent about $38,000 (plus living expenes). I earned five ratings for this in the year 2001 (MEI in 2003) after a 30% price increase on Jan 1, 2001. The prices since then have hardly changed at all. In fact, I had fuel surcharges on some of my flying done after 9/11. The point: everyone's experience will vary. You should ABSOLUTELY plan on a 10-15% overrun. Not because you will need it, but because you cannot afford to stop training in case you go over budget for any number of reasons. That being said, I know of very few people who finished their contracts all under budget. Most were slightly over. Very few were grossly over budget (20+%). The relationship between money and effort spent in training is apparently inversely proportional.

VampyreGTX, please don't interpret this post to be a jab at you. I certainly mean nothing of the sort. While you aparently spent more than I did on the three ratings you got at DCA, I know we agree that we both received quality training and do not regret the experience.

 

[VampyreGTX]

I have to add that they charge about 3/hour for fuel surcharge now, but I had a 'new' thing of PCATD time for both instrument and commercial of about 15 hours for each rating. At about $80/hour that added up. I included in my costs, books, checkrides, ground school, and the new PCATD requirements. I know the commercial one was new at least according to my instructors.

As for the New Bedford, 50%? HAH, this class was 9 out of 12 that went, only 3 that stayed in Sanford stayed for Ground school instruction. the next class I think is 7 of 12 I believe. They have over 200 students enrolled there now and it's increasing.

My friend is in CFI trianing right now and he says there are almost 10+ students per CFI instructor at the moment. That is almost 100 students that will be finishing their CFII rating nearly the same time. How can DCA hire all them at once? Hopefully enrollment will pick up as well at Sanford, which looks promising as the tours have been the largest they've seen in quite some time from what my friends there are saying.

I only unsat'd two lessons my whole training there, one for instrument and one in commercial so I was not doing extra review flights etc. Either a lot has changed (how?!) or they're charging extra in other places. (I knew one person that spent about 20 on private alone! OUCH! but that's another story)

 

[zsolez]

I will spend one day looking up adds of all the freaking schools listed on this site. Just for the heck of it. Then I will keep posting how I don't like this and that being advertised... and how I have >>heard<< this and that, here and there, perhaps from my grandmother. You know... pretty much just throw in my >>opinion<<... my >>0.2<< about

SOMETHING I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR EXPERIENCED MYSELF

Like it would have ANYTHING to do with reality at all. Still this is a common practice here.

You want to talk crap about a school than may be come and talk about your own experience. Ohhh you don’t have any? Than I don’t see how this will help “aspiring pilots” LOL. This is just plain old dirt throwing. Look up this subsection and you will find 1000000000000000 threads like this about DCA.

There are valid points about DCA, some who actually attended have posted valid negative points. But unfortunately this thread will go down as another one beating the marketing and/or Delta drum...

What do you think would I look stupid if I’d go to my DCA CFII and tell him: You too suck, because DCA’s marketing sucks and I have heard that if I don’t work 100% I may not get hired as a CFII...

...this is lame and boring... ZZzzZZzzzzz

 

[PhotoPilot]

First, thank you to all of you who posted reviews sharing your opinions about DCA and life afterwards. I am actively making plans to leave my current career and home to chase a dream in a world of economic and political uncertainty . . . any and all thoughts are welcomed and appreciated!

Second, I am always disappointed when what should be a free exchange of ideas and opinions turns into bickering and arguement. Some people who posted here admittedly did not attend DCA. Others only started or finished there and didn't complete all of their schooling in one place. Regardless, as the person who started this particular thread, I am thankful for all contributions. I am sure that there is much for me to learn from many people, including those who have and have not attended DCA.

I like to think that I am intelligent enough to read and evaluate the opinions presented. If someone disagrees with something another forum member has said, he or she is much more likely make their point with me simply by stating that they have a different perspective or idea. Insulting, ranting, or aggressive posts are always disappointing to read as they do not promote clear and free communication. Share your ideas with me and with eachother, but please do it respectfully and kindly. If a post tears into you or someone else, don't follow suit.

I'm not reacting to anyone specific in this thread; in fact, this thread is very tame and relaxed compared to others that I have read in the JetCareers forum! Consider this an appeal to all: Communication is on par with love, long bike rides, flight, and cool, autumn mornings. Use it wisely!

Thanks to all!

Best,

PhotoPilot

 

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
There MUST be some other folks out there with opinions that they want to share . . .

Time is getting short for me and I need to make a definitive decision. Anyone else want to share their experiences?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I posted here in this thread in the first place, he wanted others opinions and I gave it. You don't have to like what I say or agree with me.

This is why I kept posting here:
[ QUOTE ]
I feel that being owned by Delta helps greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't base your decision just because it is owned by a big name company.

There was something else that made me post some things that maybe were warranted because someone said to take my opinions elsewhere when his/her statement was TOTAL opinion:
[ QUOTE ]
DCA is right now the best avenue out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this at all, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Closing

DCA must have a good product because its graduates are being hired. There are also different schools that turn out a good product and its graduates are being hired too. If DCA is right for you, go for it! Make sure you research your decision thoroughly and are willing to have a lot of debt after finishing. Good luck to everyone and hopefully see you in the future.


p.s. Please get your 4 year degree before or during training. It will help your future out greatly.

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel that being owned by Delta helps greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Berkshire Hathaway owns FlightSafety (or did at a time) and large portions of McDonalds and WalMart.

But training at FlightSafety doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a corporate pilot for either McD's or Wally World.

Oh, nevermind.

 

[pavelump]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel that being owned by Delta helps greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Berkshire Hathaway owns FlightSafety (or did at a time) and large portions of McDonalds and WalMart.

But training at FlightSafety doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a corporate pilot for either McD's or Wally World.

Oh, nevermind.



[/ QUOTE ]

seriously? Aww crap!

Dave

 

[foztofly]

Doug, I am not trying to be a smart a$$ here, but was wondering if you had any facts or hard numbers you could share with us. When Delta (mainline) was hiring pilots, where did the majority of their training class come from? Were they Delta Connection pilots being "promoted", or were they from other airlines making a lateral move? Or were they military pilots that had enough hours to bypass the regional level, or maybe corporate pilots wanting to do away with the pager? I understand that they probably hired from all these avenues and probably more, just wondering if you had any data to support some kind of breakdown. Thanks for the info.

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
Doug, I am not trying to be a smart a$$ here, but was wondering if you had any facts or hard numbers you could share with us. When Delta (mainline) was hiring pilots, where did the majority of their training class come from? Were they Delta Connection pilots being "promoted", or were they from other airlines making a lateral move? Or were they military pilots that had enough hours to bypass the regional level, or maybe corporate pilots wanting to do away with the pager? I understand that they probably hired from all these avenues and probably more, just wondering if you had any data to support some kind of breakdown. Thanks for the info.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have any specific demographic information other that what I found through casual observation. But it was almost a 50:50 mix between military and civilian.

Delta has always had an extremely heavy preference for former military pilots primarily because of the rigors of UPT and more experience in heavy or high performance jets.

These cats are sharp, I don't blame them.

I had about 3000 hours getting hired at Delta, whereas some of the former F-16 drivers had about 1300.

Of the 50% civilian pilots...

We had pilots from the following majors: TWA, AA, UAL, NWA, and lots of USAirs. I'd (unscientifically) estimate about 50% (of the 50%) of the civilian pilots came from other majors, including Cathay Pacific (Hi Boyd!)

About 10% or so came from NetJets/ExecJet/large corporate operators (Ford, Coca Cola, Hewlett Packard, etc), and about 40% came from regionals. There were civilian regional pilots from "across the board" with no single carrier having a predominant amount of pilots. I do, however, remember lots of ASA and American Eagle pilots, but I wouldn't necessarily say that any one regional has any edge over another.

There are pilots from Skywest, Comair and ASA working for Delta, but I wouldn't think they'd amount to a clear majority of the regional civilian pilots. In fact, in DFW, I probably know more ex-American Eagle pilots than I know ex-ASA/Comair/Skywest combined.

Considering I was a Skyway Airlines pilot, a feeder for an airline that no one hardly heard of and probably 15 guys I knew that worked for Skyway now work for Delta (out of a pilot group of 130 pilots in 1998)

But the truth in the matter, and I'll probably get loads of hatemail for this, but I don't think Plato Rhyne added points or preference for applicants that were from a Delta connection carrier over any other regional.

Now if you were a former Navy P-3 aircraft commander, you're pretty much a shoe-in!

All of the above is casual observation from people that I talk to, befriend and otherwise socialize with around the system.

The only way to get noticed by Delta (when we were hiring, of course) was an internal recomendation from a line pilot that either personally knows you, or better yet, has flown with you....Hence my everpresent (and tres annoying) mantra of "Network Network Network".

 

[flyboy04]

So doug, you gonna let me take you up when delta starts hiring again?

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
So doug, you gonna let me take you up when delta starts hiring again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure! Why not?

Everyone needs a little help in the industry.

 

[ready2fly]

[ QUOTE ]
Delta has always had an extremely heavy preference for former military pilots primarily because of the rigors of UPT and more experience in heavy or high performance jets.

These cats are sharp, I don't blame them.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I could offer at tid-bit of proof of this statement, here it is:

Back in June, my wife and I were on a cruise and I met one of Doug's counterparts.. a DAL MD-88 F/O who was hired in `98.

His resume read something like:

USAF
A-10 pilot
Instructor T-somethingorother
Instructor A-10

and his final assignment?

Pilot - Stealth bomber.

That's your competition.

 

[derg]

That's Perry!

 

[ready2fly]

[ QUOTE ]
That's Perry!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah Bubba!!!

Seen him lately?

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
Seen him lately?

[/ QUOTE ]

On the Delta ALPA forums all the time!

 

[ready2fly]

Cool. I can't really sign up and say howdy. But I would if I could.

Mind telling him I said "hey"??

(drop me a p.m. if you need to for the pertinant info... he doesn't know me as "R2F"

)

It'd be greatly appreciated!!

 

[PWMURPHY]

Thought I would reply, if for no other reason to show that the Delta Connection Academy folks do respond on Doug's forum. I think you will find that all of us would be happy to respond to current or future student inquiries, though some would rather do that by private message than over a bulletin board.

The only time I disagreed with Doug that I can remember is over the current label (Comair Academy) he gives our flight school on his website. But, it is his website so he can call it whatever he wants. I do appreciate the dialogue that the site provides.

Delta Connection Academy is owned by Delta Airlines. It was acquired by Delta when they purchased Comair several years ago. The benefit we acquired other than the brand name (which is a significant benefit, too!) was better access to place graduates in the Delta Connection Inc. system. As many people have mentioned, that means Comair, ASA, Chautauqua, ACA and Skywest. Of that group, only Comair is currently hiring, I believe, though we all hope that Chautauqua will get back to hiring soon.

I won't attempt to defend the honor of our marketing guys regarding the ads, except to say that the guy that "needs the alone time to go take a dump" is now flying for a regional airline. So, the system is working, but as I have said many times before, it's not the only way and may not be the best way for any particular person. I do stand behind the quality of our flight training and believe it is among the best in the industry.

As to the city of Sanford, I guess it's similar to most towns. Its got its good and bad points. Until recently, I lived in Sanford, but now I reside just to the north. The tours go from the airport to the two places where we lease apartments, and they are both in Sanford and both are near "downtown." Downtown is old but quaint and it lies on the shores of Lake Monroe, which increases it's ambiance.

We continue to place our graduates at any of our locations, including most recently New Bedford, MA (Bridgewater State College). Our current wait to be placed is about 4 months.

Hope this information helps. I would be happy to respond to any questions either in the forum or by private message.

Patrick Murphy
Director of Training
Delta Connection Academy

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
...except to say that the guy that "needs the alone time to go take a dump" is now flying for a regional airline...

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?!

I know I didn't take THAT much Sudafed this morning!

 

[stuckingfk]

PWMURHY,

thanks for coming foward, but I see you have a few other posts and I missed them (my bad). The comment on that picture was made by me. IMO, I think they (DCA marketing) could find a better and a more recent picture of a new hire group.

I know you guys have a great school and I never once criticized the training.

Again, thanks for posting and I hope to see you guys post more in the forums for everyone too see.

 

[VampyreGTX]

Pat,

Nice to see you post on here. I've seen a few of your prior posts and I appreciate your straight fowardness on this forum. I'm a former student, as you can tell by previous posts, and don't have any hard feelings about DCA. Just wish it was cheaper!

and I can vouch for the fact that that instrcutor that looked constipated did move on from instructing I believe shortly before I left the academy.

Sanford can be a nice town, it just depends on where you live. Like much of the Orlando area, most of the cities in the area are VERY diverse. You can be driving in nice new construction areas with beautifully maintained communities to a block later entering the seedy part of town.