We better all slim down

trafficinsight said:
Congrats on winning the genetic lottery.
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Meh. I'll grant you that I've never been truly fat (and very likely because I'm uh "coded" not to be...fair point). But I've been psychotically in shape and embarrassingly out of it, and everything in between. There very likely are the ~10% of the population (or whatever) whose systems don't work as, uh, "designed"? However you choose to describe it, you know what I mean. But most of us are in our, what, size (?), as we are in all other things. To wit, the product of our personal ambition. For the most part, we treat our bodies as we treat ourselves

The interesting thing to me is that the psychology behind the "fat epidemic" gets short shrift in our oh-so-modern 24 hour news-cycle culture of buying and selling poop people don't really need to each other. As in like, how did it even come about that otherwise normative people feel the need pile more and more food in to their mouths? The world of money, self-absorption, and endless desire for things you can't even really have would have you believe that it's some fundamental flaw in the fatass. But I reckon the real problem lies a bit closer to home. Something about how we govern ourselves (or choose not to), and what encourages us not to govern, day after wicked day. It's something we don't talk about very much, but it's all around us, on every billboard, in every glossy advert. CONSUME, right? And yet those who take this bizarre commandment literally are reckoned pariahs, somehow. Gotta keep em guessing. I guess.

This way of thinking inevitably eats itself, though, is the thing. No pun intended. Ok, maybe slightly intended.
 
People are funny. They're told, "lose weight or you'll die," and get the response, "yeah, whatever. You guys want to go to the Golden Corral? My thyroid is really acting up, nothing a chocolate Wonderfall can't fix."

They're told, "lose weight or you can't work," and it's the end of the world.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Meh. I'll grant you that I've never been truly fat (and very likely because I'm uh "coded" not to be...fair point). But I've been psychotically in shape and embarrassingly out of it, and everything in between. There very likely are the ~10% of the population (or whatever) whose systems don't work as, uh, "designed"? However you choose to describe it, you know what I mean. But most of us are in our, what, size (?), as we are in all other things. To wit, the product of our personal ambition. For the most part, we treat our bodies as we treat ourselves

The interesting thing to me is that the psychology behind the "fat epidemic" gets short shrift in our oh-so-modern 24 hour news-cycle culture of buying and selling poop people don't really need to each other. As in like, how did it even come about that otherwise normative people feel the need pile more and more food in to their mouths? The world of money, self-absorption, and endless desire for things you can't even really have would have you believe that it's some fundamental flaw in the fatass. But I reckon the real problem lies a bit closer to home. Something about how we govern ourselves (or choose not to), and what encourages us not to govern, day after wicked day. It's something we don't talk about very much, but it's all around us, on every billboard, in every glossy advert. CONSUME, right? And yet those who take this bizarre commandment literally are reckoned pariahs, somehow. Gotta keep em guessing. I guess.

This way of thinking inevitably eats itself, though, is the thing. No pun intended. Ok, maybe slightly intended.
Click to expand...

I do think that anyone can lose weight with effort as long as they are otherwise healthy, but people for whom weight loss or maintenance comes easy who then turn around and put other people down about it irritate me to no end. I have lost 65 pounds in the last few months, but it has taken nearly perfect discipline and conscious effort at every single meal to achieve (Canadians kept trying to sneak me gravy, I swear!), and flat out denial of some foods completely (I have been to four weddings in the last few months and have not let a single bite of wedding cake pass my lips, for example).

No cheat days. Ever.

This is on top of exercise, which I'm not terrible about but I could be better, last April I rode a 40 mile ride, then a half century two weeks later, then a 30 mile charity ride a month after that, with training rides and recreational rides in between. I was the heaviest I'd ever been, so exercise obviously wasn't the answer. Hell, after the half century the 30 miler was easy!

Once I reach a healthy weight it will take conscious effort and discipline at every meal to maintain it. I can be good for weeks and lose 5 pounds, have one bad day and gain it back. I've learned to accept that I will probably always be that way.

Yeah, it's not healthy to be fat, but that doesn't mean making fun and marginalizing are okay.

Anyway, for those of you who never think about your weight, or find it easy to drop it if necessary, count yourselves lucky and try to be constructive for those who don't. For those of you who struggle with it, have struggled with it forever, and will struggle with it forever, hang in there!
 
I'm not gonna lie, I'm impressed that not one person in this thread has realized that this is a SCREEN, and not a test. The FAA didn't say that if your BMI is above 40 that you HAVE sleep apnea, it's that you have a higher likelihood of having sleep apnea.

Or put another way, would you guys argue that a person with high blood pressure and high cholesterol has an equal chance of having a heart attack as a person who has normal blood pressure and cholesterol? My guess is no, though somebody will probably chime in with, "Hey, Bubba had high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and he didn't die of a heart attack! He had a stroke! Your argument is invalid!"

If you ACTUALLY are a body builder, you're probably in good shape. Play center for the Lions? You're probably in good shape. But let's be honest guys, the chances of your "muscle" weighing more than "fat" which results in a BMI of 45 is un-bloody-likely.

The outliers that are legitimate will, as always, be safe.
 
That's a pretty "•" statement train.

... And the air surgeon did say "if you have a BMI of 40 and a neck of 17 you have OSA"
 
Dugie8 said:
That's a pretty " " statement train.

... And the air surgeon did say "if you have a BMI of 40 and a neck of 17 you have OSA"
Click to expand...

No he didn't.

Airman applicants with a BMI of 40 or more will have to be evaluated by a physician who is a board certified sleep specialist, and anyone who is diagnosed with Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) will have to be treated before they can be medically certificated.
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http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=24e0555f-5a07-400c-8f51-a5efc9770cba

IF you have a BMI of 40 or more, you must be THEN evaluated by a sleep specialist, and IF THEN you are diagnosed with sleep apnea, it must be treated.
 
trafficinsight said:
I do think that anyone can lose weight with effort as long as they are otherwise healthy, but people for whom weight loss or maintenance comes easy who then turn around and put other people down about it irritate me to no end. I have lost 65 pounds in the last few months, but it has taken nearly perfect discipline and conscious effort at every single meal to achieve (Canadians kept trying to sneak me gravy, I swear!), and flat out denial of some foods completely (I have been to four weddings in the last few months and have not let a single bite of wedding cake pass my lips, for example).

No cheat days. Ever.

This is on top of exercise, which I'm not terrible about but I could be better, last April I rode a 40 mile ride, then a half century two weeks later, then a 30 mile charity ride a month after that, with training rides and recreational rides in between. I was the heaviest I'd ever been, so exercise obviously wasn't the answer. Hell, after the half century the 30 miler was easy!

Once I reach a healthy weight it will take conscious effort and discipline at every meal to maintain it. I can be good for weeks and lose 5 pounds, have one bad day and gain it back. I've learned to accept that I will probably always be that way.

Yeah, it's not healthy to be fat, but that doesn't mean making fun and marginalizing are okay.

Anyway, for those of you who never think about your weight, or find it easy to drop it if necessary, count yourselves lucky and try to be constructive for those who don't. For those of you who struggle with it, have struggled with it forever, and will struggle with it forever, hang in there!
Click to expand...
In reference to this, and your previous post about genetics: If I came across as putting others with health issues down, I sincerely apologize. I struggled with weight too. As I said, I've only remained at my current weight for about 10 years. In high school, I played football, baseball, and hockey, with the "bulk up" eating and weight lifting programs to go along. When I graduated, the weight lifting and exercise portion of that went away, but the eating (and after 21, when the drinking really started) continued, if not increased. I put on nearly 60 pounds in 2 years. I was 22 and couldn't climb my apartment stairs without getting winded.

So, I did what you're doing. I biked, hiked, ran, swam, and walked like a madman while maintaining a strict diet and I lost 50 lbs. The first few years after the weight loss were some of the toughest. It was hard to keep off. But I, as I'm sure you will, eventually learned how to enjoy some of life's pleasures (craft beer is my undying vice) without going overboard. As I said, eating and drinking in moderation. Everyone is going to be a bit different, but if you really, and I mean really, love wedding cake or [insert vice here], have it man! Being able to enjoy life is just as important health-wise as being in good physical condition.

Good luck, god speed, and may your scale continue reading lower.
 
jtrain609 said:
No he didn't.



http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=24e0555f-5a07-400c-8f51-a5efc9770cba

IF you have a BMI of 40 or more, you must be THEN evaluated by a sleep specialist, and IF THEN you are diagnosed with sleep apnea, it must be treated.
Click to expand...
Here is a bulletin from the Federal Air Surgeon. The examination must be done by a board certified speech specialist.



2 The Federal Air Surgeon's Medical Bulletin • Vol. 51, No. 4
OSA is almost universal in obese individuals who have

a body mass index over 40 and a neck circumference of

17 inches or more, but up to 30% of individuals with

a BMI less than 30 have OSA.



from the Federal Air Surgeon’s

PERSPECTIVE...



by Fred Tilton, MD



Untreated obstructive sleep apnea is a disqualifying condition for airmen and air traffic control specialists.



New Obstructive Sleep Apnea Policy



I hope you all had a happy and really scary Halloween, and

that you will have a wonderful Thanksgiving. The purpose

of this editorial is to alert you to a policy that we will be

releasing shortly on obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). OSA is

almost universal in obese individuals who have a Body Mass

Index (BMI) over 40 and a neck circumference of 17 inches

or more, but up to 30% of individuals with a BMI less than

30 have OSA.



OSA inhibits restorative sleep, and it has significant safety

implications because it can cause excessive daytime sleepiness,

cognitive impairment, cardiac dysrhythmias, sudden cardiac

death, personality disturbances, and hypertension, to cite just

a few. Untreated OSA is a disqualifying condition for airmen

and air traffic control specialists (ATCSs), and it is a concern

for the other modes of the Department of Transportation. It

has also been a hot issue at the National Transportation Safety

Board for several years.



Dr. Nick Lomangino has been working on this policy for

quite a while, and I think he has developed an outstanding

product. We have purposely moved slowly because we wanted to

give everyone an opportunity to learn about some of the issues

before we added major changes to the medical certification

process. We began by publishing educational OSA pamphlets,

talking about the issues at flying safety meetings, and adding

an OSA session to the curriculum of aviation medical examiner

(AME) seminars.



The next step will be to require AMEs to calculate the BMI

for every examinee (both airman and ATCS) by using a formula

that is located in the examination techniques section of

the AME Guide and to record the results in Block 60 of FAA

Form 8500-8. Airman applicants with a BMI of 40 or more

will have to be evaluated by a physician who is a board certified

sleep specialist, and anyone who is diagnosed with OSA will

have to be treated before they can be medically certificated.

Once we have appropriately dealt with every airman examinee

who has a BMI of 40 or greater, we will gradually expand the

testing pool by going to lower BMI measurements until we

have identified and assured treatment for every airman with

OSA. Note: We plan to implement the same assessment and

treatment protocol for ATCSs, but we have to finalize some

logistical details before we can proceed.



While this policy focuses on obstructive sleep apnea, you as

AMEs must also be on the alert for other sleep-related disorders

such as insomnia, parasomnias, or restless leg syndrome;

or other physical anomalies such as a retrograde mandible, a

large tongue or large tonsils, or neuromuscular or connective

tissue disorders, because they could also be signs of problems

that could interfere with restorative sleep.

I hope this editorial is of some use to you. I excluded a lot

of detail because my intent was only to announce the new

policy. The complete directions will be fully explained in the

AME Guide.



Remember, you, as aviation medical examiners, are

our front line, and your daily interaction with pilots and

controllers has an enormous impact on the safety of the

national airspace. Thank you so much for what you do for

the Federal Aviation Administration, the flying public, and

the individuals you examine.

—Fred



Here is a discussion in the AOPA Medical Forum.



[URL="http://forums.aopa.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=37993&d=1384716090"]AME BMI guidance[/URL]
 
jtrain609 said:
I'm not gonna lie, I'm impressed that not one person in this thread has realized that this is a SCREEN, and not a test. The FAA didn't say that if your BMI is above 40 that you HAVE sleep apnea, it's that you have a higher likelihood of having sleep apnea.

Or put another way, would you guys argue that a person with high blood pressure and high cholesterol has an equal chance of having a heart attack as a person who has normal blood pressure and cholesterol? My guess is no, though somebody will probably chime in with, "Hey, Bubba had high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and he didn't die of a heart attack! He had a stroke! Your argument is invalid!"

If you ACTUALLY are a body builder, you're probably in good shape. Play center for the Lions? You're probably in good shape. But let's be honest guys, the chances of your "muscle" weighing more than "fat" which results in a BMI of 45 is un-bloody-likely.

The outliers that are legitimate will, as always, be safe.
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Obama is not going to tell me I can't sleep.
 
Boris Badenov said:
When selecting an AME, I always recommend that one find a guy who is A) A pilot, B) Not in practice, and C) Older than Methuselah. This formulation has yet to fail me. The guy I went to for years and years finally hung it up round about 2009, but he was a B-17 pilot...IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR. His test seemed basically to be "Oh, so you noticed me enter the room and you obviously can hear me talking...let's get started on the paperwork".
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I wholeheartedly second this. The one time I had a tight schedule and had to go to another younger ophthalmologist ame who gave me all kinds of grief on an eye test after they already had given me a typed medical and left made me regret that decision.

The old man we discuss wine, vineyards and certainly no stupid sleep studies.
 
gne in prog said:
People are funny. They're told, "lose weight or you'll die," and get the response, "yeah, whatever. You guys want to go to the Golden Corral? My thyroid is really acting up, nothing a chocolate Wonderfall can't fix."

They're told, "lose weight or you can't work," and it's the end of the world.
Click to expand...

They call the later discrimination.

They call the initial statement as an opportunity to exercise free choice.

Go figure.
 
The Fez said:
In reference to this, and your previous post about genetics: If I came across as putting others with health issues down, I sincerely apologize. I struggled with weight too. As I said, I've only remained at my current weight for about 10 years. In high school, I played football, baseball, and hockey, with the "bulk up" eating and weight lifting programs to go along. When I graduated, the weight lifting and exercise portion of that went away, but the eating (and after 21, when the drinking really started) continued, if not increased. I put on nearly 60 pounds in 2 years. I was 22 and couldn't climb my apartment stairs without getting winded.

So, I did what you're doing. I biked, hiked, ran, swam, and walked like a madman while maintaining a strict diet and I lost 50 lbs. The first few years after the weight loss were some of the toughest. It was hard to keep off. But I, as I'm sure you will, eventually learned how to enjoy some of life's pleasures (craft beer is my undying vice) without going overboard. As I said, eating and drinking in moderation. Everyone is going to be a bit different, but if you really, and I mean really, love wedding cake or [insert vice here], have it man! Being able to enjoy life is just as important health-wise as being in good physical condition.

Good luck, god speed, and may your scale continue reading lower.
Click to expand...


If I took it wrong, sorry :) I have seen way worse posts than yours, usually they're in threads about seat width.
 
surreal1221 said:
They call the later discrimination.

They call the initial statement as an opportunity to exercise free choice.

Go figure.
Click to expand...


Should they also stop discriminating against those with heart conditions, or say epilepsy? Is the EKG discrimination?

Emotion aside, there are ways to check for all sorts of disqualifying medical conditions, this isn't any different. I know losing weight is difficult, but at least obesity can be treated by yourself.
 
That's my point.

So, I take it your question is merely rhetorical or do you want me to answer?

In my initial statement, the "they" were those who are overweight. Heaven forbid an AME not give them a 1st class medical, that's discrimination by the FAA because of their portly stature.

Nevertheless, some of these same individuals would exercise their free will / choice and end up over at the nearest buffet for dinner - perhaps even - the same day as the "discriminatory" FAA regulated AME indicates that they are living an unhealthy lifestyle.

For me, honestly, if you're too wide to make it through the escape hatch, there is a problem...and I will be the first one out.

Weight is a very sensitive subject for a lot of people, unnecessarily. We only have one body - take care of it.
 
surreal1221 said:
That's my point.

So, I take it your question is merely rhetorical or do you want me to answer?

In my initial statement, the "they" were those who are overweight. Heaven forbid an AME not give them a 1st class medical, that's discrimination by the FAA because of their portly stature.

Nevertheless, some of these same individuals would exercise their free will / choice and end up over at the nearest buffet for dinner - perhaps even - the same day as the "discriminatory" FAA regulated AME indicates that they are living an unhealthy lifestyle.

For me, honestly, if you're too wide to make it through the escape hatch, there is a problem...and I will be the first one out.

Weight is a very sensitive subject for a lot of people, unnecessarily. We only have one body - take care of it.
Click to expand...

I'm tracking your point now.
 
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