Watching sheep to the slaughter

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PFJ is a symptom of an illness. The illness is too many pilots for not enough jobs.

Another symptom of that illness is low paying CFI/regional/freight dog jobs.

All these "symptoms" are part of the big "supply and demand" picture.

Think of pilots as a commodity. Tomatos for example.

Let's say that for the last few years there have been way more tomatoes grown than the market needs, so the prices have been driven down. Gentleman Joe the part-time farmer, in the midst of all this, plants not only his usual 1 acre of tomatos, but an additional 2 acres, simply because he loves growing tomatos. He takes his tomatos to market and proceeds to sell them at well below his cost to produce, just to make some money back. Doesn't come close to covering his time and materials growing them, but since this is just a side-line to him, not his livelihood, he doesn't really care too much. Now, a few years down the road Gentlemen Joe decides that he likes growing tomatos so much that he is going to buy some more land and do it full-time, for a living. But, the market price for tomatos is now so low that there is almost no way to be able to pay for the land and seeds and fertilizer and pay himself a living wage.

What do you think Joe's previous decisions regarding flooding the market with below-cost tomatos had on his future earnings potential as a tomato farmer?

Same thing in this business. Paying For a Job drives the market value of pilots down.
 
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I think someone should write an article and have it posted on the main page of Jetcareers. And then whenever anyone asks about PFT, We can refer them to this article. I think we can get some people that are knowledgable enough to sit down and write a "What is PFT?" piece. Maybe some of the more senior guys could write it.

Just a suggestion... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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I agree, this once a week PFT/PFJ session is getting really old! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Finally one person that Agrees with me. How Do I go about getting someone to do this? IT's like a pack a wolves in here.
 
Here you go, here is your article. PFT in a nutshell, from an "outsiders" point of view, in simple enough terms for any one to understand.

To get most jobs you need some kind of experience. To get that experience you usually start at the bottom of a totem pole, usually for a lesser company than the one you want to end up with. You work your way up to where you eventually want to be, by putting in your time and working hard, doing a good job, and earning your seniority. The process can some times take years depending on what your end goal is. So if some one came a long and offered to pay your desired future employer a lot of money to take the position you are trying so desparately and patiently to earn, how are you going to feel if their money buys them that job? Your future boss says "hey, Jack Smith wants to pay us 2 years worth of salary to have the job that Joe Johnson wants us to pay him for. Lets take Jack's money and give him the job." If this only happens occasionaly, then it will piss off all the Joe Johnsons waiting patiently for their turn. And Jack will lose his money but be laughing all the way to the bank once he gets enough experience to take the boss's job. But if this gets more and more popular, eventually we will all, in any industry, have to pay some one to hire us, because they will no longer want to pay salaries when some one else is willing to give them profit for the job. It's a short cut, and it does work out for a lot of Jacks. But over time it could be a really big economic downfall because people won't even be able to start at the bottom for small wage and work their way up. And that is why in the aviation industry, most people are against programs that promote and encourage this future economic decline.
 
Now who the hell said I'm going to do PFT? I know how PFT works. All I said from the beggining is "What is so bad about paying $8 an hour to fly for them?". That is before I knew the $8 was after paying $30K or something like that. It sounds like a good way to build time if a person didn't have to pay the $30K.
 
I'd say now is a good time for a good . . .

. . . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif

That's right, let's go ahead and flush it, lock it . . . everyone's said their piece, Brian's clarified his comment.

In a good (southpark) Officer Barbrady voice, "Okay people, nothing to see here!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
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Now who the hell said I'm going to do PFT? I know how PFT works. All I said from the beggining is "What is so bad about paying $8 an hour to fly for them?". That is before I knew the $8 was after paying $30K or something like that. It sounds like a good way to build time if a person didn't have to pay the $30K.

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Why in the world would you want to pay anyone anything to work for them? Its still taking away a job that should be paying. Just be patient grasshoppa. Soon enough you will be getting paid at least something fairly livable to fly a plane. Even working for $8 to fly a plane is bad.. apparently you disagree however.
 
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No offense to you, Michelle, but if you don't do the search and you go ahead and post a topic that ends up causing "drama and passion", then you kind of asked for it, don't you think?


[/ QUOTE ] No, I don't think it's deserved. With the wisdom and experience the older people here have (older as in been here longer, not as in age), you are like the parents, and the newer posters are like your kids. My son, as smart as he is, does not get the concept of forward and reverse on his remote control Tonka truck. He repeatedly runs it in to things and then gets mad because it's stuck and won't go forward. I have sat down and patiently explained to him over and over how to use forward and reverse, but he still doesn't get it. I have used forward and reverse many times in my life. So I get it, and I am tired of explaining it to him. So I could call him a stupid idiot and tell him to figure it out on his own. And he will hate me and resent me and be defiant and stubborn because he feels abandonded and insulted. Or I could smile real big at him, and try again, knowing that one day he will get it, and he will love me for being the one to teach him how to do it.
 
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Yep.

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I knew exactly what you meant Brian...

Ok people, re-read all the threads and you'll see what he originally meant.

And just a word of advice...Take some reading comprehension classes before you flame away...

All you so called/self proclaimed experienced guys should be mentoring not insulting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 
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I'd say now is a good time for a good . . .

. . .

That's right, let's go ahead and flush it, lock it . . . everyone's said their piece, Brian's clarified his comment.

In a good (southpark) Officer Barbrady voice, "Okay people, nothing to see here!"

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Anyone, anyone . . . MikeD?
 
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My son, as smart as he is, does not get the concept of forward and reverse on his remote control Tonka truck. He repeatedly runs it in to things and then gets mad because it's stuck and won't go forward. I have sat down and patiently explained to him over and over how to use forward and reverse, but he still doesn't get it. I have used forward and reverse many times in my life. So I get it, and I am tired of explaining it to him. So I could call him a stupid idiot and tell him to figure it out on his own. And he will hate me and resent me and be defiant and stubborn because he feels abandonded and insulted. Or I could smile real big at him, and try again, knowing that one day he will get it, and he will love me for being the one to teach him how to do it.

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I'm guessing your son is around 2 years old (or less)... These "kids" are old enough to read, write and understand what we are telling them, but yet still refuse to understand the long term consequences of the subject... The reason your sub-2 year old son doesn't understand is mostly a language barrier, here there is no language barrier...
 
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All I said from the beggining is "What is so bad about paying $8 an hour to fly for them?".

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Still not getting it Brian, you shouldn't pay ANY employer ANYTHING to work for them... PERIOD...

You've already PAID the $30k+ by the point you can enter this program... These aren't 0 time guys, they are people who have all their ratings already...
 
I'm not looking at the "paying to work" perspective.Look at it as you using the B1900D to get your hours. B1900D hours are good. You are paying not to work, but to build time. Sort of like EEG said.
 
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I'm not looking at the "paying to work" perspective.Look at it as you using the B1900D to get your hours. B1900D hours are good. You are paying not to work, but to build time. Sort of like EEG said.


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Brian, I would agree with that if it weren't for one thing. Gulfstream carries paying passengers that they recieve money from for a service. If I have to pay them for the "pleasure" of carrying those people to their destinations, then I would be "paying to work." If I was renting a B1900 to fly around for my own pleasure or time building, it would be different.
 
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I'm not looking at the "paying to work" perspective.Look at it as you using the B1900D to get your hours. B1900D hours are good. You are paying not to work, but to build time. Sort of like EEG said.

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Once you already have all of your ratings etc.. You don't need to pay to build time, the "time building" should end once you have all of your ratings...

These guys ALL have their ratings already...
 
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I'm not looking at the "paying to work" perspective.Look at it as you using the B1900D to get your hours. B1900D hours are good. You are paying not to work, but to build time. Sort of like EEG said.

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Okay my little tomato farmer....


But don't be suprised when the other tomato farmers aren't happy with you for lowering their income.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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I'm not looking at the "paying to work" perspective.Look at it as you using the B1900D to get your hours. B1900D hours are good. You are paying not to work, but to build time. Sort of like EEG said.

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Once you already have all of your ratings etc.. You don't need to pay to build time, the "time building" should end once you have all of your ratings...

These guys ALL have their ratings already...

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Ive tried to say this to him myself a couple times but he is too starry eyed to read it and understand it apparently. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 
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Now who the hell said I'm going to do PFT? I know how PFT works. All I said from the beggining is "What is so bad about paying $8 an hour to fly for them?". That is before I knew the $8 was after paying $30K or something like that. It sounds like a good way to build time if a person didn't have to pay the $30K.

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Why in the world would you want to pay anyone anything to work for them? Its still taking away a job that should be paying. Just be patient grasshoppa. Soon enough you will be getting paid at least something fairly livable to fly a plane. Even working for $8 to fly a plane is bad.. apparently you disagree however.

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Cosmo1999, Bro...He didn't mean it as paying the airline for a job, he meant it as paying for the aircraft, like in renting it.

Get it??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 
IseeDumbpeople.jpg
 
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