Watching sheep to the slaughter

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Thats not fact. What is backing it up? Purely for example: You need to provide something like how FO jonny lost his job because of PFJ.

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Matt, when PFT was rampant in the industry I am guessing you weren't even riding a 2 wheeler yet (1990-1995)... We are talking from experience, something you (as a self proclaimed "Young Gun of JC" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif ) have absolutely none of...

Now you can either learn from history and the vast experience that is on this board from the guys who are or have been in the industry or you can be an oblivious ignoramous and continue to walk blindly towards the shiny plane... The choice is yours...

If you can't clearly see how PFT is bad, correction, VERY bad for the industry as a whole, then obviously you are not even close to having the whole picture... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Show me another profession where people actually PAY their employer to work for them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
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I tought it costs $8 an hour to fly. Cost me not them. If I was to get paid $8 then no way. Me pay the airline $8 an hour to build time sounds good. Me getting $8 an hour to fly for them doesn't.

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How exactly does this work in your world??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

So you would PAY an airline to fly for them, but if they only wanted to pay you $8/hr you would say no way??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

You can't seriously be for real??? So you will pay to fly, but you won't fly and get paid??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Please go find some other career field... You are in the wrong place... You are obviously not able to grasp the concept of gainful employment in this field... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif

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I'm thinking here and just thinking that he meant it in a way of instead of paying let's say $75 for a cessna 152 that he would rather pay $8 and hour for a better aircraft. That's why he said in one of his earlier post " What's the catch" Brian, Am I right here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
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Thats not fact. What is backing it up? Purely for example: You need to provide something like how FO jonny lost his job because of PFJ.

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Matt, when PFT was rampant in the industry I am guessing you weren't even riding a 2 wheeler yet (1990-1995)... We are talking from experience, something you (as a self proclaimed "Young Gun of JC" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif ) have absolutely none of...

Now you can either learn from history and the vast experience that is on this board from the guys who are or have been in the industry or you can be an oblivious ignoramous and continue to walk blindly towards the shiny plane... The choice is yours...

If you can't clearly see how PFT is bad, correction, VERY bad for the industry as a whole, then obviously you are not even close to having the whole picture... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Show me another profession where people actually PAY their employer to work for them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Whoa Dude... You need to calm down. Never did I say PFT was the way to go man! Your putting words into my mouth. You say there is this History, Lets see it big man. Specific Examples! Thats all I'm asking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

PS: I'm older than you think FALCONCapt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif
 
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So you would PAY an airline to fly for them, but if they only wanted to pay you $8/hr you would say no way???

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think he is saying he would pay an airline to fly for them, if you go back and re-read it, it sounds like you can fly the plane, as in RENT it, for $8 an hour, sounds like you pay $20-30K whatever for your training and then rent the 1900 for $8 an hour. That's what I thought it sounded like and I even know better.

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Please go find some other career field... You are in the wrong place... You are obviously not able to grasp the concept of gainful employment in this field...

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You don't freaking get it, do you?

I rescind my apology to you.


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Brian, stop being stupid

[/ QUOTE ] I think you guys are being WAY WAY mean. Seriously. If you don't have the patience to explain it w/o being insulting then throw your hands up and stay out of the thread. Whether a person "gets it" or doesn't, they are still human, and do not deserve to be repeatedly insulted. Imagine if JC exsisted back when you were teenagers, I am sure a lot of you would be on the receiving end of these insult-a-thons. Like Matt said, explain some facts, not your emotions. I imagine threads like this really turn off a lot of lurkers. That's one of the reasons my husband doesn't go to message boards.
 
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I'm thinking here and just thinking that he meant it in a way of instead of paying let's say $75 for a cessna 152 that he would rather pay $8 and hour for a better aircraft. That's why he said in one of his earlier post " What's the catch" Brian, Am I right here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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The "Catch" is you can't "get to pay" for this "training" until you have enough experience and ratings to ride in their right seat... The "Catch" is that by the time you have these hours and ratings you are qualified enough to go get a job where someone actually PAYS YOU... Not the other way around...

Brain, there aren't 25 hour Student Pilots riding in Gulfstreams right seats... they are guys who already have their Commercial, Multi & Instrument ratings... When you are at that point, typically you stop paying for flight time anyhow, because you now have the experience and qualifications to get paid to fly...

Is this concept that hard to grasp???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 
Michelle, when a subject is brought up time after time after time after time... and people STILL don't get it... that those on this sight with a bit more life experience/flight experience are trying to stop them from making a HUGE mistake.... adn they still want "proof" (as if the word of someone who has been in the industry for over 10+ years isn't enough), then yes - it may sound a tad "mean", but it's necessary.

If one person on here listens, then it's worth it.
 
All I was asking was for some specific Evidence, If I recall someone else asked this a couple months ago in a PFT thread and He got Sorely beatin up. I'm probably nuts for keeping this up, But I think something should be written up. Why don't you write up some Article FalconCapt. I think that would be great if you did since you have all the experience.
 
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Is this concept that hard to grasp????

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, honestly it can be. So sorry you all have to waste so much time and energy on those stupid people like me and others who don't always understand things right up front. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Maybe I am just having a hormonal day but holy hell! You guys have a chance to act as mentors, big brothers, inspirations. Way to go at that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
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PS: I'm older than you think FALCONCapt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif

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Perhaps now would be a good time to demonstrate that, until you do, pretty much everyone is going to lump you together with the likes of BJ and CC87...

So, let me ask you this... If a company can get idiots to pay to fly in the right seat instead of paying a pilot to fly the right seat, which are they going to do???

Now, if they can't find anyone to pay to ride in the right seat, they are then forced to pay a pilot to fly in the right seat...

All of the airlines require 2 pilots, so that right seat MUST be filled, if someone is willing to pay to fill it, then that is taking a job away from someone who should be paid to fill it...

The concept (I thought) isn't that hard to understand... banghead:
 
How is some one supposed to know that it's been brought up time and time and time again and beaten to death until it's too late? I don't go searching for every subject before I post on it just incase it happens to be one that might cause some drama and passion. [ QUOTE ]
and people STILL don't get it... that those on this sight with a bit more life experience/flight experience are trying to stop them from making a HUGE mistake.... adn they still want "proof" (as if the word of someone who has been in the industry for over 10+ years isn't enough), then yes - it may sound a tad "mean", but it's necessary.


[/ QUOTE ] A more patient and less hostile approach would take this campaign a LOT farther than insults and frustration.
 
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I think someone should write an article and have it posted on the main page of Jetcareers. And then whenever anyone asks about PFT, We can refer them to this article. I think we can get some people that are knowledgable enough to sit down and write a "What is PFT?" piece. Maybe some of the more senior guys could write it.

Just a suggestion... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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I agree, this once a week PFT/PFJ session is getting really old! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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[Is this concept that hard to grasp???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

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For a new student the aswer is yes. It is hard to grasp. For some harder than others. I was bright enough to find this site and learn better. We need to educate people on this subject instead of just bitching about it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif
 
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PS: I'm older than you think FALCONCapt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif

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Perhaps now would be a good time to demonstrate that, until you do, pretty much everyone is going to lump you together with the likes of BJ and CC87...

So, let me ask you this... If a company can get idiots to pay to fly in the right seat instead of paying a pilot to fly the right seat, which are they going to do???

Now, if they can't find anyone to pay to ride in the right seat, they are then forced to pay a pilot to fly in the right seat...

All of the airlines require 2 pilots, so that right seat MUST be filled, if someone is willing to pay to fill it, then that is taking a job away from someone who should be paid to fill it...

The concept (I thought) isn't that hard to understand... If I could figure out how to draw you a picture of this concept I would, but I don't think it would help... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

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You obviously Haven't read anything I wrote in this Thread!

Just because I asked for some evidence and someone to write an article on it Does not mean I don't understand what PFT is. Did I once make some remark saying that I didn't know what PFT was? Did I?

My whole purpose of asking for evidence was to help others, Like Brian that don't understand the concept. I'm not sure why this set alarms off to you that you had to shove it in my face that I'm some kind of Idiot. I think you need to calm down a bit.
 
Please for the love of god make it stop!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Unfortunately Brian has the potential of being another sheep to the slaughter. Wasting exorbiant amounts of money when he doesnt have to. Dude if your patient and wait it out you wont have to pay to build time after you get your ratings. The time will come to you, you will get paid something worthwhile hopefully. Thats the whole point you seem to be missing you dont have to keep wasting all that money and stealing jobs while your at it. It builds character while your at it. Ok I think the original intent of this was to make fun of those FOs at Gulfstream who are naieve enough to fork over the check. You can see it in their eyes in the webcam lol. Thats what starry eyed pilot syndrome looks like. Boy I think we could all talk about this forever.
 
As George Castanza once put it

"Serenity Now! INSANITY LATER!"

Okay, not sure how that quote fits in but geez, I look at another thread for one minute, come back here, and there are already "12" new posts.

There's probably "10" new posts going on while I write this . . . yea, this has a few more pages to go /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif
 
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You guys have a chance to act as mentors, big brothers, inspirations. Way to go at that.

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Sometimes being a good "Mentor" is knowing when to give our "Mentoree" a swift kick in the ass and say "Get you head out of your ass and listen up for once, Junior... You have a lot to learn!"

Life isn't always a bed of roses and chocolates...

Like a wise man once said: Life moves pretty fast. If you don't get your head out of your ass once in a while, you could miss it.
 
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I tought it costs $8 an hour to fly. Cost me not them. If I was to get paid $8 then no way. Me pay the airline $8 an hour to build time sounds good. Me getting $8 an hour to fly for them doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

How exactly does this work in your world??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

So you would PAY an airline to fly for them, but if they only wanted to pay you $8/hr you would say no way??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

You can't seriously be for real??? So you will pay to fly, but you won't fly and get paid??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Please go find some other career field... You are in the wrong place... You are obviously not able to grasp the concept of gainful employment in this field... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking here and just thinking that he meant it in a way of instead of paying let's say $75 for a cessna 152 that he would rather pay $8 and hour for a better aircraft. That's why he said in one of his earlier post " What's the catch" Brian, Am I right here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Yep.
 
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So you would PAY an airline to fly for them, but if they only wanted to pay you $8/hr you would say no way???

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think he is saying he would pay an airline to fly for them, if you go back and re-read it, it sounds like you can fly the plane, as in RENT it, for $8 an hour, sounds like you pay $20-30K whatever for your training and then rent the 1900 for $8 an hour. That's what I thought it sounded like and I even know better.

[ QUOTE ]
Please go find some other career field... You are in the wrong place... You are obviously not able to grasp the concept of gainful employment in this field...

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]
You don't freaking get it, do you?

I rescind my apology to you.


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Brian, stop being stupid

[/ QUOTE ] I think you guys are being WAY WAY mean. Seriously. If you don't have the patience to explain it w/o being insulting then throw your hands up and stay out of the thread. Whether a person "gets it" or doesn't, they are still human, and do not deserve to be repeatedly insulted. Imagine if JC exsisted back when you were teenagers, I am sure a lot of you would be on the receiving end of these insult-a-thons. Like Matt said, explain some facts, not your emotions. I imagine threads like this really turn off a lot of lurkers. That's one of the reasons my husband doesn't go to message boards.

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Agree with ya 150%
 
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How is some one supposed to know that it's been brought up time and time and time again and beaten to death until it's too late? I don't go searching for every subject before I post on it just incase it happens to be one that might cause some drama and passion.

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No offense to you, Michelle, but if you don't do the search and you go ahead and post a topic that ends up causing "drama and passion", then you kind of asked for it, don't you think?

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A more patient and less hostile approach would take this campaign a LOT farther than insults and frustration.

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While I agree with you in part, I've been a member of this site for about 3 years and I've seen this very same topic no less than 80-100 times. No lie.

It gets old and it gets frustrating, so yes, the responses to get a bit old... especially when valid advice is not only ignored, but challenged time and time again.
 
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