First, let us go go back to read what I wrote in post 114 when I jumped in this thread and the personal, hatred response I got in post 118.
Then, if you peel the onion back and look at posts previous to 114 in this thread, Gerry was spouting off of personal disgust that an airline isn't punishing applicants if they volunteer for their union. Simple as that. I for one am happy pilot recruiters see that folks may not be able to volunteer for a charitable organization on their days off as they want to be with their family, but if a person is willing to volunteer for their pilot group when they can on layovers and give back that value is given to that. For crying out loud, we have pilots in this thread that have posted that they can't do anything on their days off for family obligations.
Yet, all we get is an enraged poster without looking at all the details and nuances to this.
There are all kinds of volunteering opportunities that benefit many different things, in many different ways.
However, when you say things like (paraphrasing) "maybe it shows the person can hold a conversation and sound like they know what they're talking about"; that's probably not the best way to recognize that there is indeed volunteer life outside union life that is considered worth it from an interview standpoint. Sure, there are great volunteer positions within, some even named, and there are ones outside also.
Once again, respect is earned, not given.
No kidding. And that goes towards people who paved the way before you. You two don't have to agree or even like each other. You don't have to respect opinions, from either of you. But there is basic respect of someone who, along with many others, made the things possible for you that make your livelihood now. I said you're not fit to carry Gerry's pubs case, you can include me in that too, if you want fairness....I'm not even fit to hold his pubs case. From what I know of him, I haven't done 1/1000th of what he's done in ocean crossings and countries visited. And from what I know, he was even doing PR work like Doug is now with his company, back when I was in college and you were in single digit age.
Why are you attempting to dress me down like I am some subordinate to you? Does it make you feel better to say things like that? I am very secure to where my career has been, where it is today and where it is going. Thankfully the senior folks I have flown with don't take your attitude and come to the cockpit with an attitude, 'well you recently went to training on this airplane, don't hesitate to speak up!'
This has nothing to do with flying a plane or CRM. I'm talking you poo-poo'ing ideas like having some basic respect for someone who has gone before you and endured the list of crap I wrote off the top of my head (and there's probably more they endured); things you've luckily haven't had to deal with and hopefully won't....strike, loss of pension, etc. You ought to thank those guys for the good you have now, and maybe won't have to endure later; even if there are issues you don't agree on.
Miss the mark again Mike. If we want to talk about spew crap I would like you to walk into the crew room and explain to someone that volunteering for CIRP or HIMS isn't a worthwhile endeavor or some of the other subjects I see posted on here that I just shake my head at.
As I mentioned above, those are good programs within the union, just like many other programs there are outside of the union.
Do you even realize that a third of the pilot group hasn't been through the events you mentioned? I feel horrible for the folks that had to go through that and don't wish it on anyone, but just because they went through it doesn't mean there are others who have had their own challenges in their own right.
I'm sure for as long as it's been, the herd has been thinned out big time since those events, and I'm sure there are a number still around who've endured it. I would venture to say that someone with a full career at your shop, who endured nearly or likely all of those events, has a bag load of suck that exceeds yours (or even mine and I'm sure many many others also, to be fair), and there comes the respect due of having endured that. Earned respect.
There are guys I don't necessarily like or dislike who paved the way before me in careers I've done, in some of those careers, they've given their lives in the cause of. For that, I hold respect even for the ones who I didn't like. They were there, they earned it at least that much. I don't have to necessarily like them personally, but I respect what their contibution to the profession was, especially if it was in my own service. As a junior to them, who benefitted in some way from what they did, I owe them at least that much.
No different than how I feel about airline flying. While airline flying in and of itself doesn't hold alot of interest to me, the actual flying itself that is....having been on enough jumpseats to be able to see it firsthand; I do have a heck of alot of respect for what airline pilots do; be it mainline, regional, cargo, whatever. Because day after day, these people get pax and cargo safely from pt A to pt B; often enduring the things like crap pay, concessions, lousy work rules, low job security, and likely a host of other issues present or potential. And yes, I include you in that respect, that's a collective earned amount of basic respect for those that do the job. Doesn't mean I like all the airline pilots I know, but I respect their work and what they do, they've earned that.
That's what I'm talking about. And that's what I think you're not seeing.
