VMC rudder block

[coks]

I have my commercial multi add on ride coming up in a few days and on the VMC demo, is either running out of rudder or reaching the rudder limit if the rudder is blocked by the DPE considered a sign of loss of directional control and thus allowing me to recover? Or do I need to take it to either the stall horn, buffet or yaw?

 

[Mike Wise]

I've never had or heard of a DPE blocking the rudder but at the school it was always recover at the first indication of the three (horn, buffet, loss of directional control). In the seminole we flew it was more common to hear the horn before running out of rudder. Good luck on your multi ride!

 

[gotWXdagain]

A DPE can block the rudder though. If they do, that’s your limit.

 

[Roger Roger]

Yes if the DPE blocks your rudder they are trying to simulate loss of directional control. You should treat it as if you were hitting the real rudder stop-hold the rudder against him and when that no longer stops the yaw, initiate recovery.

 

[coks]

So if the rudder is blocked or reaches its full travel keep going until either the yaw or stall warning then recover? I've had different MEIs tell me different things

 

[mshunter]

Don't worry about what the DPE is doing. If you've lost control, you've lost control, and do what it takes to get it back.

 

[Flyinthrew]

So if the rudder is blocked or reaches its full travel keep going until either the yaw or stall warning then recover? I've had different MEIs tell me different things

You're getting to get the yaw relatively coincident with reaching the blocked rudder position. Like within 1 to 3 seconds. You're not going to hook your ride if you wait for the yaw. The other thing you can do is just ask the examiner what he wants to see.

I teach the Vmc Demo by blocking the rudder. The importance of the maneuver is lost if you just take it to the stall horn every single time. FWIW, I hate that the FAA calls it a Vmc Demo. It's an out of control flight emergency recovery procedure.

 

[Roger Roger]

So if the rudder is blocked or reaches its full travel keep going until either the yaw or stall warning then recover? I've had different MEIs tell me different things

Yes. The point of the maneuver is that you recognize the loss of directional control or the stall warning and recover appropriately. Iirc you have +/- 20° on your heading so you can easily let it yaw 10° and remain in PTS (ACS?)

 

[coks]

Ok that makes sense, just don't want to bust on a misunderstanding

 

[coks]

One last topic I've seen different answers on: Single engine drift down altitude, is it the service ceiling or absolute ceiling? The ATP supplement says its absolute, ERAU says its service ceiling, AFH pg. 12-2 seems to say absolute, and a page on the FAA website says its service ceiling.... my instructor says its service ceiling, just making sure

 

[T/O w/FSII]

One last topic I've seen different answers on: Single engine drift down altitude, is it the service ceiling or absolute ceiling? The ATP supplement says its absolute, ERAU says its service ceiling, AFH pg. 12-2 seems to say absolute, and a page on the FAA website says its service ceiling.... my instructor says its service ceiling, just making sure

Absolute

 

[CFI A&P]

Ok that makes sense, just don't want to bust on a misunderstanding

Just throwing this out there, but why not ask the DPE during the brief before the flight? After all, their opinion is the one that matters.

 

[Fly_Unity]

One last topic I've seen different answers on: Single engine drift down altitude, is it the service ceiling or absolute ceiling? The ATP supplement says its absolute, ERAU says its service ceiling, AFH pg. 12-2 seems to say absolute, and a page on the FAA website says its service ceiling.... my instructor says its service ceiling, just making sure

Absolute is the driftdown altitude. Service ceiling is when you can maintain 50fpm climb. So if you can climb at the service ceiling, then you will not drift down to that altitude (considering everything is standard and perfect).