VFR in IMC

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roger, Roger
  • Start date Start date
Until when and if the FAA starts paying me to do so I'm not going out of my way to help them in any kind of enforcement action. I'm not an FAA safety inspector, although thats not a bad gig, and they don't offer 'safety bounties' for turning in your friends and family so why would I?

As Boris said, SUVs are probably capable of greater bodily injury and property damage than a Cessna.

Also, it is not illegal to fly in IMC while VFR. It is illegal to do so intentionally. All they gotta say is 'Wow, hoss... yeah I remember that unintentional entry into IMC. I got out of it quickly.' This makes it kind of a waste of time. Also, there is a reason why it should be left up to the FAA -- what if some day one guy you pissed off calls in and just makes something up about you? Saw your plane flying, knows you were in the air and says 'That shdw just did X, Y, Z!'
 
There is also a difference from "oh (your choice of 4-letter word) VFR into IMC" and "ha ha ha VFR into IMC"

Even with all the precautions taken to not fly VFR into IMC, "oh 4-letter word VFR into IMC" is sometimes the safest way to fly. Especially at night in rural hilly areas when both your departure and destination airport 30 miles apart report 4000 OVC and for some strange reason there are clouds down to 2000 feet and antennas up to 2000 feet. The guy said it was the scariest and most nerveracking flight he's ever done.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
and they don't offer 'safety bounties'
Click to expand...

I'm an FAA Bounty Hunter.

Dog-Bounty-Hunter-tv-12.jpg
 
MikeOH58 said:
Recently two airline pilots forgot their VFR Class Bravo cloud clearances as they made a comment to NY Approach regarding my distances. Controller asked if I were in the clouds, and both said no, but no way I was 500 below...

doh
Click to expand...

I had to do a VERY abrupt maneuver to get away from an aircraft that was scud running West of Philly last summer. ATC stepped us down from 12,000 to 8,000 but I had been watching a target on TCAS and we leveled off at 10,000 as he showed at about 9,500. I advised center and they asked if we could see him, which we couldn't because we were IMC. As we neared him, he began to climb and then the TCAS showed same altitude, same location and we got the "Climb, climb now!" Resolution Advisory. Fire wall thrust EXPLODED us out through the tops at 12,000 (think level going straight to 5000 fpm climb) and a saw a high wing Cessna pass below and behind us through a small hole. I told the approach controller there wasn't any way the guy was 500' below the bases but THAT aircraft couldn't have been in Class B because nobody was talking to him. I hope the FAA sat him down. He was flying right across the arrival corridor skimming the bottoms..assuming he wasn't flying in the clouds.

That, friends, is why you have to pay attention to the cloud clearances.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Inadvertent flight into IMC while VFR constitutes and emergency. That's all the justification you need to make it legal. It could be poor planning that got you in that situation, or it could be bad luck. Un-forecast IMC does happen.
Click to expand...

You realize they reserve the right to have you fill out paper work and investigate emergencies. If you try and claim that with 300 foot overcast you inadvertently flew into IMC...boy I would love to be at that hearing. :D
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Inadvertent flight into IMC while VFR constitutes and emergency. That's all the justification you need to make it legal. It could be poor planning that got you in that situation, or it could be bad luck. Un-forecast IMC does happen.
Click to expand...


I know what violation that would be. Just because you were ignorant, and continued flight into poor conditions, does not mean you are obsolved of a violation because you declared an emergency.

FAA: "So you knew the weather was going to be bad?"

Pilot: "No."

FAA: "So you did obtain a weather breif?"

Pilot: "Yes, I did."

FAA: "And you didn't hear the brief about MTOS?"

Pilot: "No, I did."

FAA: "And you decided to continue with your flight."

Pilot: "Yes."

FAA to FAA: "Well John, looks like we could hit him with 91.13 to start. Let me dig through the book and see what else we can hit him with. And lets get that 709 ride going as well."

FAA: "May we see your certificate?"

Pilot: "Sure."

FAA: "Thanks, you won't be needing this any more. When we figure out what we are going to do with you, you may have to take a checkride to get it back."

Pilot: "How am I supposed to make a living now?"

FAA: "We don't care. Go find a job at a gas station or something."

Now, I am going to spill the beans, no. Am I going to stick up for a fella' like this one when the FAA/NTSB comes knocking on his door, no. If you get cought, thats the least of your problems. Does anyone remember the video of the Bonanza who departed in MVFR with a L-39, and ended up with a broken wingtip light, and some dents in the L.E. of the wing. I am more worried about that, than getting a violation, and everyone else should be too. That guy was literally, literally, inches from death, WITH PAX ON BOARD. If you kill yourself, well that sucks. If you kill others, well, you just put the rest of us in a very precarious position of haveing to defend our profession to all of those who doubt flying machines. Please don't make me do that. I hate it when I have to defend your actions (not you beagle, but the collective who think this is o.k.).
 
shdw said:
You realize they reserve the right to have you fill out paper work and investigate emergencies. If you try and claim that with 300 foot overcast you inadvertently flew into IMC...boy I would love to be at that hearing. :D
Click to expand...

Just saying it can be a valid reason. The circumstances would dictate if it were prudent or not.

I've personally been cleared for a visual approach 10 miles out, and watched the field go solid IMC by the time I was 2 miles out. If you have the gas to wait, or go elsewhere, great. If you don't?

Is it ever okay to land IFR going below minimums? Sure, if you go to your alternate and go missed, once the fuel situation is bad enough, you are going to fly the ILS straight down to the runway...
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Just saying it can be a valid reason. The circumstances would dictate if it were prudent or not.

I've personally been cleared for a visual approach 10 miles out, and watched the field go solid IMC by the time I was 2 miles out. If you have the gas to wait, or go elsewhere, great. If you don't?

Is it ever okay to land IFR going below minimums? Sure, if you go to your alternate and go missed, once the fuel situation is bad enough, you are going to fly the ILS straight down to the runway...
Click to expand...


Thats not inadvertant. Thats dealing with a legit emergency. If I were faced with that situation, I would fly an ILS to the runway as well many others would too. But thats not what we are talking about here.
 
mshunter said:
Please don't make me do that. I hate it when I have to defend your actions (not you beagle, but the collective who think this is o.k.).
Click to expand...

Thanks, the Beagle is not advocating doing anything stupid.

I'm sure nearly all of us never plan to fly VFR into IMC. Just pointing that, that if it does happen, the correct thing to do is declare an emergency and do whatever is necessary to get the plane on the ground. And it does happen, plenty of NTSB reports to prove that.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Thanks, the Beagle is not advocating doing anything stupid.

I'm sure nearly all of us never plan to fly VFR into IMC. Just pointing that, that if it does happen, the correct thing to do is declare an emergency and do whatever is necessary to get the plane on the ground. And it does happen, plenty of NTSB reports to prove that.
Click to expand...


Ahhh, now I follow you. You do see my point though?
 
(...but the collective who think this is o.k.).
Click to expand...

Where did anyone say that they thought flying illegal IFR was "ok"?

mshunter said:
If you kill others, well, you just put the rest of us in a very precarious position of haveing to defend our profession to all of those who doubt flying machines.
Click to expand...

No one cares about "the profession". Except maybe some pilots. You can defend or condemn until you're blue in the face and Joe Sixpack is still going to click on the cheapest fare on orbitz, and he'll still get on the plane the week after some avoidable accident, too. Flying is a Business. It behooves us to treat it as a Business and not romanticize it where non-pilots are concerned. As far as they're concerned, they might as well be buying toilet paper.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Inadvertent flight into IMC while VFR constitutes and emergency. That's all the justification you need to make it legal. It could be poor planning that got you in that situation, or it could be bad luck. Un-forecast IMC does happen.
Click to expand...

Thats not quite how it works. Just because you did something stupid and got yourself into an emergency situation doesn't absolve you of breaking the flight rules to begin with.
 
mojo6911 said:
Just because you did something stupid and got yourself into an emergency situation doesn't absolve you of breaking the flight rules to begin with.
Click to expand...

If the weather turns out to be worse than forecast and deteriorating, how exactly is that "breaking the rules?"

There is the very real possibility that you are in that situation purely because of bad luck.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
If the weather turns out to be worse than forecast and deteriorating, how exactly is that "breaking the rules?"

There is the very real possibility that you are in that situation purely because of bad luck.
Click to expand...

Since you are the PIC and flying under the Visual Flight Rules, you are required to maintain the visibility and cloud clearance requirements. If you are not doing it, you are breaking the rules. Seems pretty obvious to me.

91.155
Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section and Sec. 91.157, no person may operate an aircraft under VFR when the flight visibility is less, or at a distance from clouds that is less, than that prescribed for the corresponding altitude and class of airspace in the following table
Click to expand...

Your intentions don't really matter, in this case. It would be the same if you miscalculated a weight and balance number and flew the aircraft overgross. While you may have accidentally switched two numbers, or screwed up the math, it is still your responsibility.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Where did anyone say that they thought flying illegal IFR was "ok"?

No one cares about "the profession". Except maybe some pilots. You can defend or condemn until you're blue in the face and Joe Sixpack is still going to click on the cheapest fare on orbitz, and he'll still get on the plane the week after some avoidable accident, too. Flying is a Business. It behooves us to treat it as a Business and not romanticize it where non-pilots are concerned. As far as they're concerned, they might as well be buying toilet paper.
Click to expand...


Refrence post one for 1st quote. I am not pointing any fingers at you. Obviously, if the thread would have never been started, I woulden't be makeing that argument. It's done (VFR in IMC) there is vidoe proof of it. We all discussed before, remember: http://forums.jetcareers.com/youtube-aviation-videos/97138-near-collision-mother-earth-cfit.html

Yeah, I know this guy is a dumbass, and we would never do that. My point being, there are some stupid to do it.


I am not making an argument of weather people care about the profession. I am simply stating that when someone asks me what happened in (insert crash here), I don't like to have to tell people "well, that guy was an idot because (insert situation here)." It makes us all look bad.
 
Roger said:
Those of you who tend to give the pilot blundering around in/near clouds the benefit of the doubt (as in, they are probably maintaining VFR in spite of appearances) should have listened to the conversation I just overheard in the FBO.

That is all.
Click to expand...

You start a thread with this information and three pages ensue!?

You sir have talent.

magical
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top