VFR in IMC

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roger, Roger
  • Start date Start date
Roger said:
Oh, I'm not running to report anyone. I can't substantiate anything even if I did want to. I will, however, mock said individual on the interwebs and add them to my "never fly with" list.
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I can't remember if you're a CFI, but if you were, how would it look if you didn't at least report what you heard to the owner/manager and the guy ends up turning that Cessna into a buried treasure?
 
Roger said:
Those of you who tend to give the pilot blundering around in/near clouds the benefit of the doubt (as in, they are probably maintaining VFR in spite of appearances) should have listened to the conversation I just overheard in the FBO.

That is all.
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You werent flying along the tennessee/georgia border when this happened...i watched a plane dissappear into a cloud who the controllers gave us a traffic alert on and was squawking vfr in no radio contact with anyone. Annoyed the hell out of me knowing if i was 2 miles further over we would have came right out at him.

But hey...he was at a VFR approved altitude for his direction of flight.
 
Different topic but along the same lines:
Once I was in an FBO, I overheard a well known local businessman, describing to the fuelers how important it is to be alert for the approach and landing. In order to "wake up his senses" he does a barrel roll while decending into the area. He has a Cirrus. Although I think he was full of crap, it was funny to hear him bragging about doing something so dumb.
 
I once heard a couple of d-bags bragging about their "unofficial IFR" trip in the restaurant at ASG. They were absolutely gloating. I was sitting a couple tables over and just started staring at them, whilst absently removing my lanyard (Can you see that it doesn't say "FAA" from over there?) They changed the subject.

That said, as I may have mentioned once or twice in these sorts of threads, I'm not the FAA, and I'm not an informant. And I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to everybody because I'd want it myself. I fly the plane, the FAA enforces the rules, never the twain shall meet.

PS. Is doing a barrel roll in a Cirrus really that dumb? It's certainly illegal (and obviously that's dumb in and of itself), but it's not like the thing just explodes when it goes upside down, is it? (I don't know these fancy pants composite planes...maybe they're allergic to being upside down).
 
Boris Badenov said:
I once heard a couple of d-bags bragging about their "unofficial IFR" trip in the restaurant at ASG. They were absolutely gloating. I was sitting a couple tables over and just started staring at them, whilst absently removing my lanyard (Can you see that it doesn't say "FAA" from over there?) They changed the subject.

That said, as I may have mentioned once or twice in these sorts of threads, I'm not the FAA, and I'm not an informant. And I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to everybody because I'd want it myself. I fly the plane, the FAA enforces the rules, never the twain shall meet.

PS. Is doing a barrel roll in a Cirrus really that dumb? It's certainly illegal (and obviously that's dumb in and of itself), but it's not like the thing just explodes when it goes upside down, is it? (I don't know these fancy pants composite planes...maybe they're allergic to being upside down).
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If they don't know what they are doing, they can easily overstress the aircraft.
 
Ok here I go dumping gasoline on a very opinionated fire...

Integrity: Consistent adherence to a code, be it moral, ethical, or legal.

We say, "don't be a rat," "don't tattle," "your not the FAA," etc.

Questions: Which of these do you report?

Scenario 1: You witness a murder.

Scenario 2: You witness a rape.

Scenario 3: A drug dealer is up the street selling drugs to your child's friends.

Scenario 4: A guy departs or lands on the taxi way.

Scenario 5: The cloud deck is at 600 feet and you witness a pilot flying a couple hundred feet above the ground through a populated area. What about over the school your children attend? Your house?

Scenario 6: A guy is flying around VFR, in controlled airspace, between clouds that are clearly less than 4,000 feet apart. (Reported layer: broken (5/8-6/8 coverage))


Does anyone see where I am going? I suspect everyone here would report the murder. So it isn't so much that your not the FAA or the cops then. It is more that you only report something if you feel it is worth reporting. Is the law being broken bad enough to impede your moral integrity and cause you to report that violation.

The laws are there to protect YOU, not just the idiot breaking them. If he/she has disregard for one law, how far do you think it will go. Do you know? Maybe you witness a guy doing aerobatics over the field. That is what you witnessed, him/her breaking a basic law. No big deal right?

The problem is, a person willing to break one rule is more than likely willing to break more. Which one of those rules might result in your death/injury? Your friends? Your relatives? Your children?

I am sorry, but a VFR pilot flying close to the clouds might result in my death, I will report him/her and you can call me whatever name you want. I like to consider myself a person of integrity and I think as pilots it is a must.
 
shdw said:
I am sorry, but a VFR pilot flying close to the clouds might result in my death, I will report him/her and you can call me whatever name you want. I like to consider myself a person of integrity and I think as pilots it is a must.
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Soccer moms driving Ford Conquistadors while talking on the cell phone the next lane over are a far greater threat to my continued breathing than some Cletus flat hatting around in IMC, but you don't see me tugging on a cop's apron strings every time some braindead barbie nearly sideswipes while reading Cosmo and driving. Life is risk and you're going to be 'put at risk" by other people all the time, get used to it.

Are you seriously comparing breaking a cloud clearance requirement to murder or rape? Is Alan Funt hiding in the bushes somewhere? I generally find that the aerial Gestapo (although I guess really more like the aerial Vichy, in this case) have some pretty serious self-esteem issues that have to be compensated for by pretending that flying an airplane is a life and death struggle against the elements that can end in tragedy at any second if anyone but the hysterical egotist in question is behind the controls or any action is taken of which said (generally low time, Ray-banned) Expert does not approve.

Are you getting out a yardstick and measuring their cloud clearance? Maybe they screwed up and are trying to get out of the clouds. Maybe they're talking crap to impress a girl and never did it at all. Two things are certain: 1) You don't know and 2) It's not your function to persecute pilots. Want to take people's licenses and/or livelyhoods? I hear the FAA is hiring, go sign up.

PS. I would advise you not to try to foist your personal view of integrity upon everyone else in the world with the clear imputation that if they disagree with your self-righteous assessment, they have none themselves. At least not if you want to have any friends left.
 
Boris Badenov said:
PS. Is doing a barrel roll in a Cirrus really that dumb? It's certainly illegal (and obviously that's dumb in and of itself), but it's not like the thing just explodes when it goes upside down, is it? (I don't know these fancy pants composite planes...maybe they're allergic to being upside down).
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A barrel roll, done right, is a 1G maneuver. It is absolutely one of the safest aerobatic maneuvers in the book, structurally at least.

With a parachute and a properly trained aerobatic pilot, most basic maneuvers can be easily completed in any aircraft. Even loops can be completed, non symmetrically, under 3Gs. A symmetrical loop is 4Gs. Hammer heads, immelmanns, rolls, barrel rolls, and spins (certification pending) are all structurally safe for any normal/utility category aircraft if performed properly.

They can be performed properly quite easily, resulting in pilots that try them to often succeed the first time. The problem is that builds confidence and an unknowing pilot can easily get in over their head. Compare an aerobatic pilot to proficient pilot completing an approach to minimums. The division of attention, staying ahead of the aircraft, and understanding of all factors involved is imperative to successful completion of both tasks.
 
Boris Badenov said:
PS. I would advise you not to try to foist your personal view
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Actually webster dictionary combined with wikipedia's view. A simple definition, no need to get all riled up.

You don't have to agree with my opinions. IMO it is a shame that we live in a world with a mindset that hasn't evolved much beyond the brain of a five year old.

"Tattle tail tattle tail." - See what I mean?

The comparison to murder was to prove the point that one speaks up when the law broken is severe enough, in their opinion, to do so.
 
Like I said...

...even if I cared enough to prosecute, I've got no actual evidence.

However, I get great joy out of berating this toolbag on the interwebs, and snickering in my non-existent beard at him while he runs his mouth around the FBO.
 
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