UUUUUGHHHHHH today was a huge mess

JaceTheAce said:
Pahlease, you guys suck.... it's all about -0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 fpm .......smooth and sensual. Just like in bed.
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Oh no, the closest I have gotten to smooth and sensual in bed was with my Gleim publications. Shoots, there goes my chance to be a professional pilot like my idol Rod Machado!:sarcasm::nana2:
 
TheShocker said:
Oh no, the closest I have gotten to smooth and sensual in bed was with my Gleim publications. Shoots, there goes my chance to be a professional pilot like my idol Rod Machado!:sarcasm::nana2:
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BAH!!!:banghead::D

You guys need to get the #### to bed I think. You're getting kinda loopy! :)
 
TheShocker said:
10fpm = turns out bad with ###### tires supplied by UND
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they are normal GA tires from my experience. if you want some good friction when you stop, you need to drop the flaps, the 40* of flaps are producing a lot of lift and not allowing full braking action.

of course that is against UND SOP's..
 
roundout said:
are you joking? the UND bashing has stooped to the quality of tires on the planes?

get real.
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Oh hey Mr. High and Almighty, you weren't in the airplane with us. It is known that UND has had a couple of problems with tires going flat and a receiving a bad batch of tires. Many of these tires happened to be thrown away. Save your blind bias and obsession for UND somewhere else. I guess UND is god in your opinion and can never do any wrong.
 
TheShocker said:
Oh hey Mr. High and Almighty, you weren't in the airplane with us. It is known that UND has had a couple of problems with tires going flat and a receiving a bad batch of tires. Many of these tires happened to be thrown away. Save your blind bias and obsession for UND somewhere else. I guess UND is god in your opinion and can never do any wrong.
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is that why i watched a seminole get stuck over by flight support last week with a flat tire?
 
BuickCFI said:
is that why i watched a seminole get stuck over by flight support last week with a flat tire?
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It could be the reason, but what is weird is all of a sudden the increase in such occurrences. I have Safety with Dana today, I will talk to him a little bit about the subject.
 
BuickCFI said:
they are normal GA tires from my experience. if you want some good friction when you stop, you need to drop the flaps, the 40* of flaps are producing a lot of lift and not allowing full braking action.

of course that is against UND SOP's..
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I have yet to have this habit broken during my training here. Primacy at it's finest.
 
BuickCFI said:
they are normal GA tires from my experience. if you want some good friction when you stop, you need to drop the flaps, the 40* of flaps are producing a lot of lift and not allowing full braking action.

of course that is against UND SOP's..
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its against SOPs to change flap position on the roll out?? (serious question)

why/whats the reasoning behind that?????
 
TXaviator said:
its against SOPs to change flap position on the roll out?? (serious question)

why/whats the reasoning behind that?????
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I believe the policy came about while UND still had mooneys. There was electric gear and flaps and the levers were right next to eachother I believe. I think they had a couple problems with people grabbing the wrong lever while doing touch and goes and when the airplane got light on the wheels, the nose wheel would retract resulting in an interesting situation. :)

To me it's just another "hey don't be a dumbass" things that needs to be enforced by some policy. I don't see what the problem is in the pipers. I think the new issue is might be maintaining directional control. Some people must take their eyes away from outside and look to retract the flaps. Why they can't do it without looking is beyond me. It's pretty hard to miss. It'd be like having to look inside while shifting a car with a manual transmission. I've never really had an instructor give me much grief about it. Just the occasional reminder that in some situations, it's probably not a good idea to be retracting flaps during roll out.

I got my PPL at an FBO and it was always stressed to retract flaps on landings, specifically short field landings. Soft field landings we kept them in. I trained in a cherokee cruiser, which is a 140hp warrior with the hershy bar wing. I could definitly notice a significant increase in braking power with the flaps retracted on that airplane. I can't say I've noticed in the warrior and arrow though.
 
If you need to retract the flaps to safely get the airplane stopped on a true short field, you shouldn't be there in the first place. This brings a quote in mind an older pilot told me once. "I'm more impressed what a pilot won't do with what he can do."

Another reason I think UND doesn't do it (ie my opinion), you won't find many airlines calling for flap retraction to reduce stopping distance. Kind of like if you need the thrust reversers to stop in normal conditions then you shouldn't be attempting the landing in the first place. They become real beneficial with contaminated runways.

I know in the CJ3 we actually added more flaps on touchdown to increase drag and destroy life (speed brakes deployed when we moved lever into ground flap position).
 
stuckingfk said:
If you need to retract the flaps to safely get the airplane stopped on a true short field, you shouldn't be there in the first place. This brings a quote in mind an older pilot told me once. "I'm more impressed what a pilot won't do with what he can do."

Another reason I think UND doesn't do it (ie my opinion), you won't find many airlines calling for flap retraction to reduce stopping distance. Kind of like if you need the thrust reversers to stop in normal conditions then you shouldn't be attempting the landing in the first place. They become real beneficial with contaminated runways.

I know in the CJ3 we actually added more flaps on touchdown to increase drag and destroy life (speed brakes deployed when we moved lever into ground flap position).
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I agree completely. It's just one of those things that I was taught early on that I just can't seem to break. I'm willing to bet I'd only do this in airplanes with flap levers. But yeah, I tend to side with that there should be no configuration changes until the roll out is complete, unless you're doing stop and goes or touch and goes.
 
TXaviator said:
its against SOPs to change flap position on the roll out?? (serious question)

why/whats the reasoning behind that?????
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NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER

did I mention NEVER!

Make a config change on the rollout, your attention needs to be 100% on the landing, not moving a lever (save for the reversers or spoilers). Slightly more complex airplanes have rudder effectiveness (ie the amount the rudder moves) tied into if or if not the flaps are deployed. Retracting the flaps could find you without enough rudder or noswheel authority to control the airplane in a crosswind or take more than you are used to putting in.
 
Dugie8 said:
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER

did I mention NEVER!

Make a config change on the rollout, your attention needs to be 100% on the landing, not moving a lever (save for the reversers or spoilers). Slightly more complex airplanes have rudder effectiveness (ie the amount the rudder moves) tied into if or if not the flaps are deployed. Retracting the flaps could find you without enough rudder or noswheel authority to control the airplane in a crosswind or take more than you are used to putting in.
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I'm not sure, but I think what Tex meant was changing flap config AFTER complete touchdown... not during flare or when the nosewheel is still off the ground.
 
stuckingfk said:
If you need to retract the flaps to safely get the airplane stopped on a true short field, you shouldn't be there in the first place. This brings a quote in mind an older pilot told me once. "I'm more impressed what a pilot won't do with what he can do."

Another reason I think UND doesn't do it (ie my opinion), you won't find many airlines calling for flap retraction to reduce stopping distance. Kind of like if you need the thrust reversers to stop in normal conditions then you shouldn't be attempting the landing in the first place. They become real beneficial with contaminated runways.

I know in the CJ3 we actually added more flaps on touchdown to increase drag and destroy life (speed brakes deployed when we moved lever into ground flap position).
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i think the PIM/POH says to do so to increase braking effectiveness
 
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