Using Flight Director

[A150K]

I can't imagine learning, and I would absolutely never teach primary IFR training with an FD. Heck, I firmly believe in doing it in a round dial airplane. As others have said, if you can't fly IFR without an FD, you should be only flying VFR.

There is some fantastic advice in this thread from many who are SUBSTANTIALLY more experienced and further ahead in our careers than the OP is, so if he chooses to ignore the information given here, that's his loss.

"Ahhhh well folks ahhhhhh our flying time to ahhhhh ahhhhh Miami today will be ahhhh 3 hours at a cruise ahhhhh altitude of ahhhh 17,500 ahhhhh sit tight ahhhh we just gotta take on a bit of ahhhh extra fuel here"


Kidding of course

 

[z987k]

you don't have any frakking automation beyond your FO (and from what you tell me they are frequently deferred...) so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


This post is brought to you by Beta. Beta: chicks dig it.

I used to have a 430W, coupling autopilot and flight director.... but that was when I flew pistons.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I used to have a 430W, coupling autopilot and flight director.... but that was when I flew pistons.

For me, the equipment progression has been somewhat logical.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

FANTASTIC video clip.

The entire Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program, minus one bit about rudder, is great. I'm very fortunate to have sat through it.

 

[Airmann]

The entire Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program, minus one bit about rudder, is great. I'm very fortunate to have sat through it.

For Autothrust Blue. You say that I am not paying attention to those that know more and that I have already made up my mind. I am not sure what your experience level is, I assume very high, however as I indicated in previous post, I have suggestions from 5 CFII's that started teaching the G 1000 in 2004. They start out teaching and having their students learn, use, and apply the FD to their instrument flying. My guess it that not everyone shares your opinion. I am not saying to use the FD to the exclusion of everything else, but, try it sometime, you might like it? It is a fact that by learning it, when you take it away and start hand flying, the hand flying then comes much easier than if you did not use it. That is why I called it a great LEARNING TOOL, not the end all to flying IFR. The other item is that have suggested that I not even use the G 1000 until proficent in round dials. I am 2000 miles from home and the only planes available are all have the G 1000. So, what would you do, make a stand, tell them you refuse to fly and just keep the money? I don't think so, you play the hand you are dealt and do the very best you can with what you have. That is what I am trying to do. I am sure when I am finished, I will fly with a CFII using round dials. One of the FBO's that I will rent from is SoCal have many planes with the G1000, so, I will fly with the G 10000 quite a bit and feel fortunate that I now know how to and how to use everything regarding the 1000, instead of refusing to use it.

 

[z987k]

I guess all we're really saying is the flight school and the II's are not doing you any favors. There's about a 90% chance after flight school your first job will have round dials. Lets say you go to a regional at the first opportunity - 1500 hours lets say. That means the next ~1200 hours of flying you're going to be doing, unless all you do is CFI at a school with glass, is going to be in round dials. THEN even when you go to a regional, if you are on a turboprop, there's a good chance you're going to be flying round dials. You go fly freight, you'll be on round dials. You go fly a 737 for a freight carrier(right now even SWA has some left), it's round. Point is, commercial aviation is at least a decade or 5 behind the latest and greatest in most sectors. The only sector of aviation I've seen stay very up to date is in the charter or business side and even then.

 

[Chief Captain]

Airmann,

You asked our opinion, and we gave it to you. Almost everybody has recommended using an analogue cockpit instead. That may not be practical in your situation. EVERYBODY agrees that the FD is a bad idea. Turn it off, and learn how to fly.

It's really that simple.

 

[dasleben]

Holy crap, using a flight director during basic flight training? I didn't even have a flight director on my first airliner! Damn kids, get off my lawn!

No kidding! I like my flight director now, but I learned with steam gauges and flew steam professionally for a good while as well. Kids these days...

 

[Autothrust Blue]

For Autothrust Blue. You say that I am not paying attention to those that know more and that I have already made up my mind. I am not sure what your experience level is, I assume very high, however as I indicated in previous post, I have suggestions from 5 CFII's that started teaching the G 1000 in 2004. They start out teaching and having their students learn, use, and apply the FD to their instrument flying. My guess it that not everyone shares your opinion. I am not saying to use the FD to the exclusion of everything else, but, try it sometime, you might like it? It is a fact that by learning it, when you take it away and start hand flying, the hand flying then comes much easier than if you did not use it. That is why I called it a great LEARNING TOOL, not the end all to flying IFR. The other item is that have suggested that I not even use the G 1000 until proficent in round dials. I am 2000 miles from home and the only planes available are all have the G 1000. So, what would you do, make a stand, tell them you refuse to fly and just keep the money? I don't think so, you play the hand you are dealt and do the very best you can with what you have. That is what I am trying to do. I am sure when I am finished, I will fly with a CFII using round dials. One of the FBO's that I will rent from is SoCal have many planes with the G1000, so, I will fly with the G 10000 quite a bit and feel fortunate that I now know how to and how to use everything regarding the 1000, instead of refusing to use it.

I've already largely said what I'm going to say on this front, and it was better summarized by Chief Captain:

Airmann,

You asked our opinion, and we gave it to you. Almost everybody has recommended using an analogue cockpit instead. That may not be practical in your situation. EVERYBODY agrees that the FD is a bad idea. Turn it off, and learn how to fly.

It's really that simple.

Just turn it off.

 

[dasleben]

Completely false.
You turn a FD off on a career airline guy and watch things go from great to disaster in about 5 seconds (not always sure but more likely than not).

Also completely false. I turn off the F/D pretty regularly.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I can't remember the last time I saw someone I was flying with turn off the FD. I've been known to turn it off on a rare occasion when doing something like the river visual at DCA, but the company generally frowns upon it. They want the automation on to the greatest extent possible.

 

[Chief Captain]

I can't remember the last time I saw someone I was flying with turn off the FD. I've been known to turn it off on a rare occasion when doing something like the river visual at DCA, but the company generally frowns upon it. They want the automation on to the greatest extent possible.

I've always found it funny that some companies want you to use the AP/FD as much as possible, yet expect you to remain proficient on raw data.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Yep, our manual has something to the effect of "pilots should be proficient in all varying degrees of automation." Meanwhile, click off the FD and a checkairman acts like you killed his kitten or something.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Also completely false. I turn off the F/D pretty regularly.

You...you have a flight director?

As always, use the level of automation that is appropriate to the circumstances, considering factors including the aircraft's vertical/lateral profile, energy state, configuration, how tired you are, etc. On a clear VFR day on downwind to Bumblefrak Bakersfield, you should probably use no automation whatsoever...

 

[dasleben]

I can't remember the last time I saw someone I was flying with turn off the FD. I've been known to turn it off on a rare occasion when doing something like the river visual at DCA, but the company generally frowns upon it. They want the automation on to the greatest extent possible.

Truth be told, I generally turn it off only if it's not showing me anything useful. I normally leave it on for visuals that are backed up by an ILS, too. I turned it off turning into the lead-in lights on the VOR 13L into JFK a couple weeks back (it's not showing anything, so it's distracting), and I also turned it off for a VFR pattern I flew in Japan a while back. Some guys "make" it show something (usually with heading select and vertical speed set to some value), but I'd just as rather take that opportunity to stay proficient with the plain ADI. Either way is fine.

But! After lots of raw data flying without a flight director, I reserve the right to be a flight director-lovin' autothrottle junkie; kids going through primary instrument training do not have such a right.

 

[mikecweb]

I mash it off when it's not showing me anything relevant. I was discouraged when I was chastised for not using it to do my stalls during my last PC sim ride.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

When I did my fed ride as a new captain many moons ago, the fed slapped me on the wrist for clicking off the FD on a visual approach when it wasn't showing me useful data. He told me to leave it on and "look through" the FD. Former FedEx checkairman before he retired and became a fed, so not sure if it was something he picked up there, or it was a thing the MEM FSDO was hard up on.

 

[Chief Captain]

He probably wrote "cowboy" on your file for turning off the FD.

I guess it depends on the trainer. When I did IOE, the CA insisted that I did one flight without the use of the AP/FD, and one purely visual approach- no ILS and no PAPI/VASI.

 

[dasleben]

When I did my fed ride as a new captain many moons ago, the fed slapped me on the wrist for clicking off the FD on a visual approach when it wasn't showing me useful data. He told me to leave it on and "look through" the FD. Former FedEx checkairman before he retired and became a fed, so not sure if it was something he picked up there, or it was a thing the MEM FSDO was hard up on.

I guess it depends on the Fed. I've never been chastised for it, even on my type ride flying a visual pattern with the FAA watching. Could have to do with how the F/D itself works when you hit the go around switches; if ours is off, it'll automatically come back on for guidance on the missed.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Heh, just had my .297. We did a backcourse and for some reason the autopilot kept turning the wrong way, like it was a regular localizer approach. Well, naturally I killed the A/P, reached up, turned off the FD, and flew the approach rather neatly if I do say so myself with green needles and my hands. Circled to land, put it in the touchdown zone, and made the first turnoff. I looked over at the CCE, expecting praise for reacting quickly and saving the approach. He was frowning. To his credit, he didn't give me any flack then, but in the debrief, he said something like "good ride, but don't be so quick with turning things off". WTF?