Using Flight Director

Glass experienced 250 hour commercial pilot is as unemployable as a steam-gauge trained pilot with 250 hrs.

Why waste the dough at such an early stage in your career?

[(glass Cessna cost per hour) - (steam Cessna cost per hour)] x (# of hours trained) = money in the pocket or money for Dergs PFT program.


Sent from my TRS-80
 
Derg said:
Glass experienced 250 hour commercial pilot is as unemployable as a steam-gauge trained pilot with 250 hrs.

Why waste the dough at such an early stage in your career?

[(glass Cessna cost per hour) - (steam Cessna cost per hour)] x (# of hours trained) = money in the pocket or money for Dergs PFT program.


Sent from my TRS-80
Click to expand...
Beer money. ;)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Beer money. ;)
Click to expand...
I am shocked at the amount of responses to my original question? For DERG, you obviously did not read my entire post, I am not, not trying to get an airline gig. I am just a newer pilot that learned on round dials and now getting my instrument. The place I am training at ONLY HAS THE 172 WITH G1000. The price was by far and away thousands less than I could find elsewhere. I play the hand that I am dealt. By using the FD as a training tool has helped my hand flying of the AC by leaps and bounds. For KSdriver, you are correct, if it is in the plane, you had better know how to use it or fail the CR. I fully agree that you should know how to hand fly the aircraft. If you take the time to really learn how to use the FD, it is a great tool, and yes it does not always work correctly, but, tell me what items in the AC Always work correctly. A good pilot is prepared for those times when things go wrong. That is what emergency procedures are for. For the gentleman that said using the FD does not promote or provide muscle memory, you are totally incorrect! There are flight training schools that teach the FD for that very reason. For those the really know how to use the FD, 99% of them do not automatically then turn on AP at 400ft.The FD is not for everybody. I am a pilot flying for fun, not looking for a paying job, and the FD has helped in being able to now hand fly the AC, without the crutch of the AP.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Agreed. The integration is incredible and not having to duck down to read the autopilot is a definite benefit.
Click to expand...
Yes, having the scoreboard (FMA) in your line of sight instead of looking down to find a silent, flashing "APR" when stuff goes wrong is awful nice :D

I love the GFC700.
Airmann said:
I am shocked at the amount of responses to my original question?
Click to expand...
Easy does it, Holmes.
For DERG, you obviously did not read my entire post, I am not, not trying to get an airline gig.
Click to expand...
Woo! But everything that has been said here, still applies.
I am just a newer pilot that learned on round dials and now getting my instrument. The place I am training at ONLY HAS THE 172 WITH G1000. The price was by far and away thousands less than I could find elsewhere. I play the hand that I am dealt. By using the FD as a training tool has helped my hand flying of the AC by leaps and bounds.
Click to expand...
Again, I'll respectfully submit that your interpretation, scan, and cross check won't be as good as someone who learned how to fly basic attitude instrument, raw data. Your control inputs might be all sorts of nice and smooth, but the eye movement (and head work) is probably not as great.

I'm glad you know how to switch modes and such, though. It's very important knowledge, but nowhere near as important as...drum roll...basic attitude instrument flying.

I fully agree that you should know how to hand fly the aircraft. If you take the time to really learn how to use the FD, it is a great tool, and yes it does not always work correctly, but, tell me what items in the AC Always work correctly.
Click to expand...
Believe me, at 200' overcast and 1800 RVR I will keep the flight director coupled and use it until DA(H). Especially on the 7th leg of the third day.
A good pilot is prepared for those times when things go wrong. That is what emergency procedures are for. For the gentleman that said using the FD does not promote or provide muscle memory, you are totally incorrect! There are flight training schools that teach the FD for that very reason. For those the really know how to use the FD, 99% of them do not automatically then turn on AP at 400ft.The FD is not for everybody. I am a pilot flying for fun, not looking for a paying job, and the FD has helped in being able to now hand fly the AC, without the crutch of the AP.
Click to expand...
Most of the airplanes you will fly for fun WILL NOT have (at least for now) that level of automation or technology available. I am not trying to burst your bubble here, merely stating a fact.

My family owns a VERY nicely equipped light twin (we have glass and everything), but our autopilot is limited to a very basic set of modes (hold this altitude, hold this heading or NAV course). MOST rental airplanes I've laid hands on in my career have not had advanced autoflight director systems.

This talk was delivered to a bunch of airline pilots at the AA Academy in GSW. Naturally it's more biased towards airline flying, but this applies to anyone flying a technically advanced aircraft.
 
Airmann said:
I am shocked at the amount of responses to my original question?
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you had no question, as you've clearly got your mind set as to the value of using an FD and disagree with experienced instructors who tell you otherwise... so I guess there is nothing more to say.
 
rframe said:
It sounds to me like you had no question, as you've clearly got your mind set as to the value of using an FD and disagree with experienced instructors who tell you otherwise... so I guess there is nothing more to say.
Click to expand...
And with folks who fly (sometimes) highly automated airplanes for a living too.
 
Airmann said:
I am shocked at the amount of responses to my original question? For DERG, you obviously did not read my entire post, I am not, not trying to get an airline gig. I am just a newer pilot that learned on round dials and now getting my instrument. The place I am training at ONLY HAS THE 172 WITH G1000. The price was by far and away thousands less than I could find elsewhere. I play the hand that I am dealt. By using the FD as a training tool has helped my hand flying of the AC by leaps and bounds. For KSdriver, you are correct, if it is in the plane, you had better know how to use it or fail the CR. I fully agree that you should know how to hand fly the aircraft. If you take the time to really learn how to use the FD, it is a great tool, and yes it does not always work correctly, but, tell me what items in the AC Always work correctly. A good pilot is prepared for those times when things go wrong. That is what emergency procedures are for. For the gentleman that said using the FD does not promote or provide muscle memory, you are totally incorrect! There are flight training schools that teach the FD for that very reason. For those the really know how to use the FD, 99% of them do not automatically then turn on AP at 400ft.The FD is not for everybody. I am a pilot flying for fun, not looking for a paying job, and the FD has helped in being able to now hand fly the AC, without the crutch of the AP.
Click to expand...
If you already had your mind made up, why did you ever bother posting? Most people here have more experience and perspective than you have right now or will have for a long time. Might not be a bad idea to listen for a moment.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
 
Derg said:
I feel a dance-off coming on.
Click to expand...

Bring it.
cat_dance_off.jpg
 
Number one thing about learning instrument is learning to fly by the gauges and do it precisely. If your basic attitude instrument flying is sloppy, you will be sloppy in everything else you do under the hood. I learned that the hard way when teaching instrument students, and by the time I was done instructing I would hammer the basic attitude instrument flying, both full and partial panel, until the student could do it precisely. Only then did we move on to tracking. That doesn't mean that tracking navaids isn't critical, but you have GOT to get the building blocks first. Same thing with use of a flight director/autopilot-if your airplane has one it is critical that you know how to use it, as there are a lot of perfectly good airplanes that have become smoking holes due to Autopilot Mode Confusion. But you can't start off with it, you need to know the basics first. Besides that, if you already have the basics of flying instruments down using most autopilots is actually pretty simple, and the FD likewise.
 
Without reading any other posts, here' my take on FD use for instrument training. Once the basic foundation is laid (attitude instrument flying and basic navaid tracking), introduce it's use and use it 50% of the time afterwards. This forces them to practice using all of the tools in their bag AND forces them to know how to do with out them. A flight director should NEVER be thought of as a substitute to a solid scan (I've seen it taught this way too), rather as a tool to aide the scan and make it a bit easier.
 
z987k said:
It's really weird, I have never been able to watch that video. I've seen it hosted on multiple sites on multiple computers, and on every one, there is no sound. I need the vhs hard copy I guess.
Click to expand...
you don't have any frakking automation beyond your FO (and from what you tell me they are frequently deferred...) so I wouldn't worry too much about it. ;)


This post is brought to you by Beta. Beta: chicks dig it.
 
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