US Senate panel votes to reject hiking pilot retirement age

///AMG said:
Nice, that looks pretty cool. We stayed at this Ukrainian owned hotel just a couple miles down the road from Rainier park this winter. It was great, good restaurant, great eastern/euro/slavic beer selection too. I'll have to check this out though. We normally do the big yurts they have on base here, down at the beachside MWR campground, for our summer "Mando" drill weekend campout. Literally right on the beachfront, something like $90/night. We almost got rolled up by the base popo last time, for I guess being too loud at 4 am o_O Fortunately one of our Sailors was also the park host, so she talked them off the ledge. Anyway, it's the best party of the summer, maybe tied with our "growler week" golf tournament.
Click to expand...

Hey, MP, you forget about the noise we're making and I'll forget about your 12 year 30% APR loan on your Dodge Charger, ok? :)
 
I say good. I'm curious of what this will look like in 5/10/20/25 years. I want to "be able to walk away" at 55 (currently on track) but the dynamics of this whole issue come down to "get senior, stay senior". I saw the 60-65 change and it changed my world in the junior ranks, stuck at a regional, and I don't see this issue going away. Younger pilots will claim "we gave you 5 more years", older say "2 more won't hurt and could enhance". My concern becomes (even if ICAO comes around to let this be plausible) what new medical standards will be put in place. As stated, I'm looking to not work that long- so don't kill the messenger. If we start more sleep studies, stress tests instead of EKG's, pulmonary function testing, mental healthy screenings, etc... this will end up with just more disability claims. Some say "more money", reality is "less money" as it's very expensive to keep folks as simply "ancillary" to the operation. Nobody wins and most lose, depending on what is decided for testing. Our job has a host of medical requirements, more testing means more failures, it's not a winning solution. Who HASN'T flown with someone who is emotionally miserable but does a great job in the jet (a hot topic in motion)? Who HASN'T flown with the guy/gal who flys a great jet, works out on the layover, but could have something "off" on additional testing (current reality just on a EKG test)? This is a hand cannon with the only target being our own feet. If retirement age gets moved, what is the rush for retirement savings, for disability, for life insurance? Many member will see that cost and adjust expectations, only leaving them vulnerable if the timeline is higher then their reality. It all matters in union negotiated contracts, and has a cost, and the cost bearer will be the pilot coming into this profession, and those to follow with eyes on the reality. Notice, no air carrier endorsed the idea of moving the age. All CBA's would get opened and the cost past 64 exponentially grows. In most areas 2x as much. Just life insurance alone jumps to double at age 65. The guys who lost a great deal were given 5 more years. That's a chapter, not the start of a story.
 
higney85 said:
I say good. I'm curious of what this will look like in 5/10/20/25 years. I want to "be able to walk away" at 55 (currently on track) but the dynamics of this whole issue come down to "get senior, stay senior". I saw the 60-65 change and it changed my world in the junior ranks, stuck at a regional, and I don't see this issue going away. Younger pilots will claim "we gave you 5 more years", older say "2 more won't hurt and could enhance". My concern becomes (even if ICAO comes around to let this be plausible) what new medical standards will be put in place. As stated, I'm looking to not work that long- so don't kill the messenger. If we start more sleep studies, stress tests instead of EKG's, pulmonary function testing, mental healthy screenings, etc... this will end up with just more disability claims. Some say "more money", reality is "less money" as it's very expensive to keep folks as simply "ancillary" to the operation. Nobody wins and most lose, depending on what is decided for testing. Our job has a host of medical requirements, more testing means more failures, it's not a winning solution. Who HASN'T flown with someone who is emotionally miserable but does a great job in the jet (a hot topic in motion)? Who HASN'T flown with the guy/gal who flys a great jet, works out on the layover, but could have something "off" on additional testing (current reality just on a EKG test)? This is a hand cannon with the only target being our own feet. If retirement age gets moved, what is the rush for retirement savings, for disability, for life insurance? Many member will see that cost and adjust expectations, only leaving them vulnerable if the timeline is higher then their reality. It all matters in union negotiated contracts, and has a cost, and the cost bearer will be the pilot coming into this profession, and those to follow with eyes on the reality. Notice, no air carrier endorsed the idea of moving the age. All CBA's would get opened and the cost past 64 exponentially grows. In most areas 2x as much. Just life insurance alone jumps to double at age 65. The guys who lost a great deal were given 5 more years. That's a chapter, not the start of a story.
Click to expand...
I doubt that adding two more years, gets the medical to semi astronaut standards.
 
higney85 said:
The guys who lost a great deal were given 5 more years. That's a chapter, not the start of a story.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think this is a fair summary. Their year groups got F'd pretty hard and they got their "catch up" years, but this doesn't need to be a perpetual thing. I don't really want to meet a guy who wants to fly 121 until they are 67. People talk about it being free money at that point in terms of seniority and such, which for some (who were hired in their 20's), it probably is. But for a lot of us who started much later, following a glut of much younger guys, we could raise retirement to 100 and it wouldn't make my last few years any better. Which is why my focus is on earliest possible out. Because I'm not trying to work a day in my 60s. And the only reason I want to work a day in my 50's (or 9 years specifically) is to get permanent travel benefits, and I guess say I worked some semblance of a career at my shop. I'm out NLT than 59 yo, and please hold me to that. Like beat my a** if I stay another year beyond that, please, JC
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
I doubt that adding two more years, gets the medical to semi astronaut standards.
Click to expand...
Reality is that we can't determine what could change. From 60-65, many end up on disability. Before 65, they passed everything til 60.. For ICAO to pass 67, any further tests would have to be considered. You want to think standards won't change with a range in age? it's the opposite. It already happened. I went from normal issuance to SI's in a year (purposely leaving reasons out of this) . Ran a sub great half, so I kinda thought I would qualify to fly a plane. NOPE. More reg changes required more tests, why? because regs changed for age 65 and I was 30. There is zero chance of the "hey, you feel good" medical to work going forward of 65. It's an easy political copout to say "continued issuance with these tests"... how many would pass further pulmonary/heart/prostate/etc checks? Very Slippery slope. The question really becomes...are you willing to let the regs become so tight to avoid a failure at 67, that it restricts work starting as soon as 21, and makes everyone pay for the ones who lived long enough to get benefits?

Some will say what?
 
///AMG said:
But for a lot of us who started much later, following a glut of much younger guys, we could raise retirement to 100 and it wouldn't make my last few years any better.
Click to expand...
You and I are in a similar boat there, although I bet you made a heck of a lot more progress while I was mucking around flying tourists, frozen pizzas, and sedated old people
 
Roger Roger said:
You and I are in a similar boat there, although I bet you made a heck of a lot more progress while I was mucking around flying tourists, frozen pizzas, and sedated old people
Click to expand...

It blows, but a year or so of DoH at this place made a big deal on QOL in the timeframe we are talking about. Not trying to raise the ladder on you though bro. If it makes you feel better, a navy buddy of mine who was hired in 2019, when I could theoretically have first been hired (actually 2018 had I not extended on active duty in the navy for a year voluntarily, then got caught by covid), is like 40% ish and lives amusebuche life. It'll pick up again, but it does totally suck to slightly miss the timing train.
 
///AMG said:
It blows, but a year or so of DoH at this place made a big deal on QOL in the timeframe we are talking about. Not trying to raise the ladder on you though bro. If it makes you feel better, a navy buddy of mine who was hired in 2019, when I could theoretically have first been hired (actually 2018 had I not extended on active duty in the navy for a year voluntarily, then got caught by covid), is like 40% ish and lives amusebuche life. It'll pick up again, but it does totally suck to slightly miss the timing train.
Click to expand...
Oh don’t I know it. Local buddy of mine was hired 2018 or 19 I forget, but he’s 35% or so in sea. I creeped his PBS award and, well, life goals.
 
Absolutely insane…I was 29% in SEA73 right seat when I upgraded, and in less than 2 years.

If the merger goes through (and not being stopped by DOJ suit as I heard it might be), I’ll be around getting drinks with y’all.
 
SurferLucas said:
Absolutely insane…I was 29% in SEA73 right seat when I upgraded, and in less than 2 years.

If the merger goes through (and not being stopped by DOJ suit as I heard it might be), I’ll be around getting drinks with y’all.
Click to expand...

Yeah that could have some interesting impacts on everyone. I honestly am not smart enough to know if it will be good or bad, just not what it is now. I feel like SEA 737 could accelerate once again though.

I have a decent friend group who is <20% SEA 737B. Some maneuvered to 320 CA, some to 220 CA, some to 320 FO in lieu of quick upgrade. The times are very fast, much faster than FAR 121 hours make one legal for upgrade.
 
///AMG said:
Yeah that could have some interesting impacts on everyone. I honestly am not smart enough to know if it will be good or bad, just not what it is now. I feel like SEA 737 could accelerate once again though.

I have a decent friend group who is <20% SEA 737B. Some maneuvered to 320 CA, some to 220 CA, some to 320 FO in lieu of quick upgrade. The times are very fast, much faster than FAR 121 hours make one legal for upgrade.
Click to expand...
I dunno, maybe I’ve been on this site too long but I feel like the golden rule is that a merger always results in greater economies of scale equals fewer employees. But if it means some of the more special SEA CAs bid off to fly widebodies many of us might appreciate it
 
Roger Roger said:
I dunno, maybe I’ve been on this site too long but I feel like the golden rule is that a merger always results in greater economies of scale equals fewer employees. But if it means some of the more special SEA CAs bid off to fly widebodies many of us might appreciate it
Click to expand...

I have no idea what the result will be, but I hope that juicer airplanes and pay scales will attract the top end of the 737 seniority list. I know we have a few senior commuters from the islands. And I know we have people who would like to fly the 330F lines, or any newly purchased 787 lines that don't come with a fence
 
///AMG said:
Yeah that could have some interesting impacts on everyone. I honestly am not smart enough to know if it will be good or bad, just not what it is now. I feel like SEA 737 could accelerate once again though.

I have a decent friend group who is <20% SEA 737B. Some maneuvered to 320 CA, some to 220 CA, some to 320 FO in lieu of quick upgrade. The times are very fast, much faster than FAR 121 hours make one legal for upgrade.
Click to expand...
Our resident Duck could prognosticate better than I could, but it’ll probably be both good and bad. I think everyone is assuming widebodies will go to SEA, which would drastically change the dynamic, but the wild card is the Amazon flying. That could be a doozy of a displacement bid. Also there is no way to do an ISL where anyone is happy. I’d still love to see an A330F ANC base, but no way I’m even thinking about holding my breath for that one. *insert DOJ caveat here*.
 
Roger Roger said:
You and I are in a similar boat there, although I bet you made a heck of a lot more progress while I was mucking around flying tourists, frozen pizzas, and sedated old people
Click to expand...
Never play this game with military guys! "Well i was flying worn on regional planes"..."well I was deployed X times to afghanistan and Iraq getting shot at..."...You'll always lose :)
 
alaskadrifter said:
Our resident Duck could prognosticate better than I could, but it’ll probably be both good and bad. I think everyone is assuming widebodies will go to SEA, which would drastically change the dynamic, but the wild card is the Amazon flying. That could be a doozy of a displacement bid. Also there is no way to do an ISL where anyone is happy. I’d still love to see an A330F ANC base, but no way I’m even thinking about holding my breath for that one. *insert DOJ caveat here*.
Click to expand...

I'm staying far, far away from the SLI process.
 
Kingairer said:
Never play this game with military guys! "Well i was flying worn on regional planes"..."well I was deployed X times to afghanistan and Iraq getting shot at..."...You'll always lose :)
Click to expand...
Eh, not really about that. I’m comfortable that I payed my dues whether it was “VFR” in an overloaded Cherokee or going to Wrangell at 2 AM on a dark and stormy night. Comment had more to do with the goal of being ready to retire and how dudes like him were earning a military pension while I was getting a 3% match.
 
Roger Roger said:
Eh, not really about that. I’m comfortable that I payed my dues whether it was “VFR” in an overloaded Cherokee or going to Wrangell at 2 AM on a dark and stormy night. Comment had more to do with the goal of being ready to retire and how dudes like him were earning a military pension while I was getting a 3% match.
Click to expand...


You don’t need to show off about PAWG at 2am. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Has the Regional Bubble Burst?
2 3
Replies
52
Views
4K
wheelsup
wheelsup
mjg407
NTSB Mishap Report P-2 Airtanker Crash Stead
Replies
17
Views
5K
///AMG
///AMG
JEP
AOPA Pilot Town Meeting - MSP 04/23/08
Replies
4
Views
616
Mad Doggy Dog
Mad Doggy Dog
derg
The "John Ley" Update
Replies
4
Views
5K
Cruise
Cruise
BobDDuck
Upgrade Blog
Replies
9
Views
2K
wheelsup
wheelsup
Back
Top