US Airways increases offer for Delta Air Lines

That disdain actually doesn't go away.

There were still people pissed about the "Chicago & Southern" acquisition, my CSO was pissed because he didn't have FO bidding rights (former National) Salt Lake was until quite recently filled with "Dagummit, I got screwed in the merger" former Western pilots. Heck, there's even a former Pan Am-Europe on the website that checks in from time to time.

Don't want to rain on the Parker Parade, but it doesn't go away.
 
Fighting in one hub isn't the same as fighting in multiple locations on multiple routes both domestic and international. PHX is one thing, but how does HP do against SWA (or any other LCC) in places like BWI, MCO, MDW, DAL, HOU, etc? If HP had been holding their own in more than one hub against SWA, then I would say they were fighting them off. Until then, they're just treading water and gathering spill over from oversold flights.

Brother, HP has been fighting WN on ALL of their routes. Since pre-merger HP practically only flew from PHX and LAS, their whole network is competiting against WN. Much more competition as a percentage than any other airline.

And THAT'S what's wrong with this.

This happens with all mergers, regardless of the company or industry. Nobody is going to like their merged partner at first.

(However, I will acknowledge that it is going to get real ugly at first, mostly fueled by this anti-US campaign. It sounds like Hitler is trying to take over)

If it goes through like you say, then do you think it's right for the HP/US guys to treat DL pilots like second class citizens?

I promise you that the most ruthless employee's would come from the DL front. (Not saying they are bad guys)

...you know there is a quote function in the site. If you learn how to use it be sure to tell DE727!

:)
 
That disdain actually doesn't go away.

There were still people pissed about the "Chicago & Southern" acquisition, my CSO was pissed because he didn't have FO bidding rights (former National) Salt Lake was until quite recently filled with "Dagummit, I got screwed in the merger" former Western pilots. Heck, there's even a former Pan Am-Europe on the website that checks in from time to time.

Don't want to rain on the Parker Parade, but it doesn't go away.

Never goes away, but it does become bearable.

...you know there is a quote function in the site. If you learn how to use it be sure to tell DE727!

:)

Thank you sir, but I didn't want to put the time to learn how to quote two separate sections of one post.
 
And THAT'S what's wrong with this. Ask TWA and AA how well pitting two pilot groups that could soon be co-workers against each other works. There are numerous examples in airline history of this happening, and MOST come out with a splintered pilot group that is distrustful of one another post-merger. Instead of being the united, happy company people think, the pilot groups are two or three groups that don't like each other under one name.

How is this really relevant to the merits of this merger and how the creditors decide? I know it's "important pilot stuff" but I don't think there's ever been a merger where the pilots didn't grumble (see Doug's comments about that). But pilots, for the most part, act like professionals in these cases and do their jobs.

Now if you want an unhappy group that really can cause problems, piss off the baggage handlers.
 
I will agree, Doug, that the pilots are the wild card among the creditors here. Every single other creditor will be on board because their guaranteed recovery is greater than their potential recovery under the standalone plan. Pilots are not exactly alien to the "I will burn this house in order to save it" mentality.

So many of you are so violently opposed to the US/DL merger, and are simultaneously excited about the possibility of DL/NW merging instead. Why? What's different? Same integration issues, same risks. Just with a management team that hasn't already done a merger recently, knows the ins and outs, and (hopefully) learned from the mistakes made in HP/US.

I'm sure as hell not denying the difficulties and the integration issues involved in any merger. (I live in CLT. I know a LOT of US Airways folks that still identify themselves as Piedmont people.) But you've got to believe that consolidation is a fact of life in this industry. And if that's true, what makes NWA a better partner than US Airways? I return to my original statement. This opposition is fueled almost entirely by unfounded hatred of US Airways as a company and/or of Doug Parker personally. It's like a bunch of little kids in a group, telling the new kid on the block, "You can't be in our club," writ large. Nothing more.
 
Good to hear. I'll have to tell my NWA pals that the whole "red book/blue book" stuff is over too.

Which merger were you a part of again? :)

Red Tail/Green Tail.......


Heard it many times in my stint at NWA.

....And yes, I have been a part of a merger. Currently happening (I would bet that a majority of the people have shopped at a store owned by my employer.... )....Oh, you meant airline merger... ;)
 
Every single other creditor will be on board because their guaranteed recovery is greater than their potential recovery under the standalone plan...... But you've got to believe that consolidation is a fact of life in this industry.

I'm skeptical that there really is a standalone plan. It seems likely to me that Grinstein et al expect Delta to be a consolidation player. I just don't think they want it to be USAir and that this overt approach has screwed up their timetable.

I expect to see another merger proposal before this is all said and done. But Parker may have played his cards right and pushed this to the point that the others can't respond or won't match the financial terms. Now whether it will be a successful merger is another story.
 
So many of you are so violently opposed to the US/DL merger, and are simultaneously excited about the possibility of DL/NW merging instead. Why? What's different? Same integration issues, same risks. Just with a management team that hasn't already done a merger recently, knows the ins and outs, and (hopefully) learned from the mistakes made in HP/US.

I'm sure as hell not denying the difficulties and the integration issues involved in any merger. (I live in CLT. I know a LOT of US Airways folks that still identify themselves as Piedmont people.) But you've got to believe that consolidation is a fact of life in this industry. And if that's true, what makes NWA a better partner than US Airways?
What make's NWA a better parter? That's simple.... Pacific Routes and a satellite base in Japan. Worth it's weight in Gold! If DL can pull it off they're gonna rake in the dough. DL has a strong Europe base and with the addition of the Pacific, United will have a run for it's money and US will still be on the bottom of the Top 5.
 
Brother, HP has been fighting WN on ALL of their routes. Since pre-merger HP practically only flew from PHX and LAS, their whole network is competiting against WN. Much more competition as a percentage than any other airline.

Facts and figures to back it up, please. I worked in MCO, and there were two HP flights in and out of there, one was a red eye. Kinda hard to "compete" when SWA doesn't run red eyes. Two flights vs 70-80? Not hardly competition. Like I said, picking up spill over from oversold flights. Now, if they were running something like 60 flights and doing well, THEN I'd say they were competing. And we're talking pre-merger on this. Post-merger doesn't count. Why? Because now we're talking US Airways, not HP. Brand names do a LOT for selling and competition, hence the reason they opted to stick with that name. If they had gone with America West, there woulda been a lot of people saying "Hey, have you flown that new airline yet?" Post merger they also now have access to the US Airways res system, the frequent fliers/loyal customers, the route structure and the planes. Something they didn't have and couldn't afford before in order to compete. Comparing HP pre and post-merger in a competition sense is apples and oranges. Before the merger, they were a "hometown airline" like Midewest Express. If they HAD tried a full scale, multi-hub competition against SWA, I don't think they would have had the funds to pull it off.

I promise you that the most ruthless employee's would come from the DL front. (Not saying they are bad guys)

If I was unwillingly absorbed into a company, I'd be pretty ruthless, too. Is that an excuse to treat them as sub-human, though? Still didn't answer the question.

How much research and reading have you done on airline mergers, or is this all just a US Air cheerfest for you?

In the end, the creditors are the ones that will make the decision, but I don't see how sadling a company with more debt than it can potentially handle is a GOOD idea. Now, if US Air actually had the money to do this instead of borrowing all of it, I'd probably be more for it. But as it is, it looks like they're trying to trigger a round of mega-carrier mergers and are willing to mortgage their lives for the honor of being the first.
 
I wanna buy Doug Parker's wife a strap-on so she can violate him every night, and so Doug Parker will go to bed knowing what the employees meant when they said "BOHICA!"
 
You didn't answer Doug's question.

Have you been involved in a merger or been a crewmember with someone who was involved in one?

Why does it matter? It is common sense that people move on with their lives.

Facts and figures to back it up, please. I worked in MCO, and there were two HP flights in and out of there, one was a red eye. Kinda hard to "compete" when SWA doesn't run red eyes. Two flights vs 70-80? Not hardly competition.

Just look at how many flights WN has at PHX and LAS......HP's ONLY hubs!
 
And it's apparently going swimmingly, FlywithUS:

(from the AWA MEC)

Pay Increases:

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman’s message to the pilots for Sunday, January 07, 2007.

I want to report to you some of my observations concerning our fight for a fair contract, especially in light of the recent well deserved raises our brother and sister pilots at America West received on January 1st of this year.

I have sat in on several of our JNC negotiations and watched your committee at work. But despite their hard work and relentless preparations, progress at the table remains disgustingly slow.

For it was business as usual when we met with the Company back in December. A substantial amount of time was spent at the last meeting on listening to the Company attempting to articulate once again how they approach these negotiations. We have now gone through three major “re-clarifications” on the company’s negotiating position. Their latest word wiggle of offering the America West contract didn’t apply at the negotiating table. After several attempts to re-clarify what it is they actually meant by offering the West contract, one thing remains the same— business as usual.

And it’s business as usual for many reasons, but the one that seems so painfully obvious to me is that management has come to expect certain behavior from this pilot group. They have taken us—and our willingness to carry this company on our backs, both financially and operationally—for granted. They have come to expect that no matter what, they can always depend on the pilots to bail them out. We must understand that to be successful in these current negotiations, those expectations of management must be changed.

But what will it take for this management to realize the contribution our pilots make to the bottom line by routinely going the extra mile? And what will it take for them to stop taking for granted the 6.8 billion dollars US Airways pilots have committed to ensure our survivability, profitability, ultimately providing for the opportunity to merge with America West and ensuring that the AWA pilots could count on their contractual 3% raise? What will it take for management to stop taking for granted the countless times our crews hold our operation together by making all those calls to catering, for wing walkers, for jetway drivers, for cabin and maintenance discrepancies, for weight and balance numbers, etc., etc., etc? What will it take for them to abandon their bankruptcy mentality at the negotiating table?

Management will continue to treat us this way as long as they think we will settle for this treatment. We have in large part enabled their expectations. We still perform our jobs at a fraction of the wages we once earned and we still continue to do the work of others as well.

And I guess my biggest question is, “How is this working out for us so far?” And as our mobile billboards suggested at our CLT and PHX picketing events, “Had enough yet?”

I realize the tremendous professionalism that exists among our pilots. I respect the pride and dignity that you bring to our profession and into our cockpits everyday. My point is that we are not getting the respect and compensation that we deserve and have earned for saving this airline and for keeping it going daily with our extra effort and sacrifices.

Simply put, do your job. Do it professionally and as always, do it safely. But let management know that your backs are tired and sore from carrying them through mismanaged operations and through mergers and transactions lucrative only to them. Management hopes that you will forget about that pension they took and the sacrifices your families have made. They’ll tell you that we’ll all be much better off if we just all work together. Tell management you’ve “had enough!” Stay informed and join us in our soon to be announced next coast to coast pilot picketing event.

Fly Safe and thanks for listening

Merger Update:

Today’s hearing began with the AWA merger committee playing an audio tape of a question and answer session involving Doug Parker and a group of employees held in Charlotte. During this session Parker gave his personal view that without AWA, US Airways would not exist. After this several minute audio tape was played, AWA attorney Jeff Freund called their first witness of the day.

This witness was a continuation of the AWA “Tale of Two Airlines.” Ed Albert of Milestone Advisors, LLC was called to testify on behalf of the AWA pilots. Milestone Advisors is a boutique investment banking firm. Mr. Albert was proffered as an expert in airline restructurings. He was involved working for US Airways management in both restructurings that the company went through. His testimony began with a timeline of US Airways financial difficulties. His first bullet point was Stephen Wolf testifying before Congress stating that US Airways was not viable as a stand alone carrier. Albert went on to explain how US Airways continued to burn cash even after exiting bankruptcy following the first reorganization. He stated that there was no cash left for operations at the end of US Airways second bankruptcy. Albert stated that many in the investment community believed that US Airways would never exit bankruptcy and would in fact liquidate. He also stated that there was no stand alone plan of reorganization submitted in that case.

After this testimony Mr. Albert moved on to the status of AWA prior to the merger announcement. AWA had an uncollateralized loan from the ATSB that required a principal payment each year of $86 million. Although he didn’t specify that there was actually a plan in place, Albert testified that he believed that AWA would have been able to raise cash in order to avoid a future liquidity crisis. This direct testimony consumed the morning

Merger Continued:

Today US Airways Group Inc. raised its offer for Delta Air Lines to 10.2 billion dollars, up from its 8.5 billion dollar bid of November 15th. Delta's unsecured creditors committee has said that it was reviewing both Delta's standalone plan and US Airways' bid.

As the Coast-to-Coast MECs stated last month in a press release, by failing to integrate two pilot groups under one contract, US Airways management has not yet properly merged US Airways and America West, demonstrating little chance of completing the merger of a third airline. The MECs have also determined that US Airways’ Delta proposal raises serious issues about the job protections contained in the US Airways and America West pilot contracts. Your MEC is closely monitoring all the events surrounding this proposed merger and will take the necessary actions to protect the interests of the US Airways Pilots.
 
Just look at how many flights WN has at PHX and LAS......HP's ONLY hubs!

I'm still waiting to see how this equates to coast to coast competition......

I could just as easily say "Look how much MUG root beer is sold in Atlanta" and make the same point.
 
I'm still waiting to see how this equates to coast to coast competition......

I could just as easily say "Look how much MUG root beer is sold in Atlanta" and make the same point.

Kell, he's confusing the old HP with the consolidated US operated by HP. They confused the hell out of everyone with all the different flight numbers for one flight to LAX.
 
And it's apparently going swimmingly, FlywithUS:

(from the AWA MEC)

I never said the integration was going smoothly. But this doesn't demonstrate that the US management can't merge another airline. They are probably delaying as much as possible because of the pending merger. They are businessmen, not angels.

Plus, the bias from the source does not make it a good source. (Although, there really isn't any good source in this)

I'm still waiting to see how this equates to coast to coast competition......

I could just as easily say "Look how much MUG root beer is sold in Atlanta" and make the same point.

How does that make a difference? Competition is competition. PERIOD. It doesn't matter how big it is. I said HP has fought against WN very well over the years, and it doesn't make any difference if it has only been in one region. That one region was the only region HP was big in. It doesn't matter that they didn't have a war on the east coast.

That is like saying US and DL do not go up against each other, since it is only on the east coast, and not "coast to coast".

Kell, he's confusing the old HP with the consolidated US operated by HP. They confused the hell out of everyone with all the different flight numbers for one flight to LAX.

¿Que?
 
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