UPS MD-11 crash at SDF

[arkflyr]

I’ll have to respectfully disagree. That information is valuable for learning and prevention. As well as transparency promotes integrity of all parties involved.

You can put me in @ZapBrannigan and @Richman camp here, an executive summary by the investigating agency is all that is needed. I met one of the attorneys that represented Comair in the litigation after the 5191 accident and that CVR wound up on YouTube. He said he can't prove who leaked it but he has his theories that it was one of the plaintiffs.

I am a hard no on cockpit video as well.

 

[Murdoughnut]

You can put me in @ZapBrannigan and @Richman camp here, an executive summary by the investigating agency is all that is needed. I met one of the attorneys that represented Comair in the litigation after the 5191 accident and that CVR wound up on YouTube. He said he can't prove who leaked it but he has his theories that it was one of the plaintiffs.

I am a hard no on cockpit video as well.

I always wondered why that one got out there

 

[MFT1Air]

You can put me in @ZapBrannigan and @Richman camp here, an executive summary by the investigating agency is all that is needed. I met one of the attorneys that represented Comair in the litigation after the 5191 accident and that CVR wound up on YouTube. He said he can't prove who leaked it but he has his theories that it was one of the plaintiffs.

I am a hard no on cockpit video as well.

Why? Perspective over perception? State your case with the pros and cons of your position, please? I'm curious.

Before you do, let me expound on a perspective for a moment.

Yes, I was an instructor as Johnson Space Center. Shuttle crews were my focus until the program ended. Big on our agenda was CRM. It was crucial. Time spent in the simulators under worse case "survivable" situations we "SCRIPTED" were critical to building teamwork with the crew. Astronauts had Top Gun mindsets. How do you mold four flight deck crew into a singular united front under less than ideal fllying situations. In the simulator, we had multiple cameras to actually visualize crew behavior. Why? For that obvious reason. . .to observe behavior during both nominal and off nominal situations. It is a valuable tool to observe/evaluate human behavior. The human factors aspects of flying. See and hear?

Had we made this incident a training session? We would have failed to teach. Why? Appeared to me it was a no win situation for the crew. I'm not morbid by any means. I'm believing the crew flew this crippled aircraft to the bitter end. That makes me proud. Makes me be thankful it wasn't a passenger flight.

Mechanical failure? I've no clue. Cameras in the maintenance area? Another source as everyone reverse engineers the sequence of events leading up to this loss of lives?

So, what's your "pushback" on no video or did I misunderstand? On another note, cops love body cams now.

 

[Inverted]

Honestly, we need to go all “Canada” style where there’s not even a transcript of the CVR released. A total of 4 people review it, they write their report, and then the media is locked away forever. 0.0 reason for it to be published.

Couldn't disagree more.

First of all, the NTSB doesn't get it right all the time. In fact, sometimes, they blunder investigations so badly that the outcome of the investigation is wrong. Second, having 4 people in charge of it invites corruption and bias and completely eliminates any checks and balances. How differently would the outcome be if 4 people were in charge of the 737 MAX investigations and they just so happened to be bought, and/or employed by Boeing? Come on...

Do you think the Air India investigation is going well right now? Do you actually believe or trust the information put out so far?

I also think there is a required level of transparency in our career field. We are in the public transportation business, and yes, even cargo. We live in a modern digital world, and we have already seen 10 angles of the crash. Release the information and obviously have the NTSB conduct the official investigation, but I want to read that CVR. I want to understand this accident. This is how we learn, and this is how we better equip ourselves as professional pilots. The least we can do for the deceased crew, is to all learn from this, and I think releasing information is paramount to that.

 

[CFI A&P]

I back this. So you can't benefit from airline cvr transcripts just as a non-airline pilot? Strongly disagree.

We can look at the recent Air India accident, lack of transparency is already fueling conspiracy theories that there is a cover up.

I don’t want cameras in the cockpit, or CHR transcripts to be used for ridicule and shame but there is an academic benefit to it, not matter how morbid it may be.

Just like an autopsy, why did this happen? What can we learn from it for preventive reasons?

 

[Maurus]

Couldn't disagree more.

First of all, the NTSB doesn't get it right all the time. In fact, sometimes, they blunder investigations so badly that the outcome of the investigation is wrong. Second, having 4 people in charge of it invites corruption and bias and completely eliminates any checks and balances. How differently would the outcome be if 4 people were in charge of the 737 MAX investigations and they just so happened to be bought, and/or employed by Boeing? Come on...

Do you think the Air India investigation is going well right now? Do you actually believe or trust the information put out so far?

I also think there is a required level of transparency in our career field. We are in the public transportation business, and yes, even cargo. We live in a modern digital world, and we have already seen 10 angles of the crash. Release the information and obviously have the NTSB conduct the official investigation, but I want to read that CVR. I want to understand this accident. This is how we learn, and this is how we better equip ourselves as professional pilots. The least we can do for the deceased crew, is to all learn from this, and I think releasing information is paramount to that.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. You have to trust they represented everything accurately.

The NTSB is one of the best investigatory bodies in the world and they are involved all over the world in investigations. That doesn't mean they are perfect.

Allowing all the evidence to exist allows for a type of peer review.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I don’t want cameras in the cockpit, or CHR transcripts to be used for ridicule and shame but there is an academic benefit to it, not matter how morbid it may be.

And the thing of it is, not everyone has the requisite clinical detachment (or, in fewer words, 'the stomach') for this sort of thing.

But the CVR transcript is the first place I turn to when the dockets come out.

But hard no on cockpit video.

 

[SFCC/UND]

I don't think I saw this posted. 11/29 was expected to reopen at 7am. Given its short length, will that hamper operations of the widebody fleet?

7 dead on the ground so far.

I landed the 747 on it last year — definitely a pucker factor, especially with the wet runway conditions at that time.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Death toll 9 and expected to climb, according to officials.