UPS A300 down at Birmingham AL

No one in charge of this much life and property is worth that little. No one.

Unfortunately, the market sets the price, and there is no "objective" monetary value for ANYTHING, be that an object, or service, or responsibility, or labor.

Since there are still plenty of people who are willing to do this job for the amount of money being offered, then clearly that's what it is "worth", like it or not.
 
If commuting from the opposite coast is so bad, then are you up in arms against trans cons, red eyes, and operating out if you domiciles time zone?
 
Did you, or, did you not, order a, "Code Red"?
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Motion for Clarification.

Folks go on and on about how commuting from one coast to the other is terrible, because you'll obviously be tired when you get done with your Seattle to Newark commute, right? Of course, you're crossing multiple time zones! You have to be tired!

But it's not fatiguing to fly a 757 in the middle of the night, when you're supposed to be sleeping, from Newark to Dublin with only two guys up front? Or is it simply acceptable because it pays well?

Or how about guys that do 3 days worth of trans cons, ending up on opposite coasts every night, and then finish their trip off with a red eye. Or is that ok because it's commutable on the back end?

You're crossing a ton of time zones in either of these examples, and they are naturally fatiguing. The way you do them at work is the same way you handle them when you commute; you take getting rest seriously.
 
*snipped for space savings*

You're crossing a ton of time zones in either of these examples, and they are naturally fatiguing. The way you do them at work is the same way you handle them when you commute; you take getting rest seriously.

Like getting in a day early to be rested for your show time if you have to. I commute from LAX to ATL. It ain't that bad, but it isn't easy.
 
Folks go on and on about how commuting from one coast to the other is terrible, because you'll obviously be tired when you get done with your Seattle to Newark commute, right?


Some commutes are good, some are bad, some impact safety. Some folks handle tough commutes better than others.
 
Your first year is probation. Speak up in terms of what you are implying, and you will be promptly fired. Watch 'Flying Cheap' to know just exactly how Colgan operated and what it forced its pilots to do. "Operating within the rules" what rules? They've willfully changed flight records to show a crew legal for a day just to get flights done, via showing a later checkin time than what was actual in order to make a full 16 hr legal day. That's also in that documentary. Stop defending Colgan. What airline do you fly for? "Those pilots who put up with it and those who don't." Try working at a non-union Colgan and see how long you last. You sound like you are drinking some KoolAid.

This isn't my first flying job. I'm not some wet behind the ears, fresh off instructing CFI. I have worked for companies that pencil whipped everything for duty time to days off, and everything in between. Some, with an upgrade time of less than a year, which could have been very valuable. Even knowing that, I still took my life and walked from them. I even went back to instructing for a little while when I was having a hard time finding a good gig because at least there, I had complete control over my well being. Where I'm at now, is the first union shop I have worked at. I have no opinion on it yet, I haven't been here long enough to have one, so I can't speak to that. But I know that if I got fired for speaking up about things being pencil whipped, I'd likely never work again a day in my life if I had solid proof of it. And believe me, I'd have that proof in todays day and age with all the tools I have just in my pocket afforded by a cell phone.

No matter how you spin this, the money isn't the problem here. Yeah, the wages are fairly low. But she knew that going in. So did I, and I still took the offer. Everyone has their reasons for it. If I get fired for calling in sick, fatigued, whatever, speaking up, then so be it. My objective is to make it through this career without ever having to do any kind of carpet dance, anywhere, and make it out alive. If I do end up doing a carpet dance, then so be it. Honesty and integrity is all I have on my side, and if that isn't enough, did I really want to work there in the first place? Maybe I should have quit before it got to that point.

I think you are totally missing my point because you are upset and frustrated with how the industry treats FO's their first year at a regional. You're allowed that. But if they pay, work rules, and "whipping" of pilots and records is to much for you to handle, get out of the company you are at, and find a damn better one. Don't get all bitter with the whole industry because of a few bad operators. They are everywhere on the 135 side. That's where I came from. And I left that side for a reason.
 
"Try working at a non-union Colgan and see how long you last. You sound like you are drinking some KoolAid."

Did Cherokee actually say that? I thought he hated unions? Jet U and on to non-union Virgin America? Lot's of Kool Aide to go around I think....
 
Folks go on and on about how commuting from one coast to the other is terrible, because you'll obviously be tired when you get done with your Seattle to Newark commute, right? Of course, you're crossing multiple time zones! You have to be tired!

But it's not fatiguing to fly a 757 in the middle of the night, when you're supposed to be sleeping, from Newark to Dublin with only two guys up front? Or is it simply acceptable because it pays well?

Or how about guys that do 3 days worth of trans cons, ending up on opposite coasts every night, and then finish their trip off with a red eye. Or is that ok because it's commutable on the back end?

You're crossing a ton of time zones in either of these examples, and they are naturally fatiguing. The way you do them at work is the same way you handle them when you commute; you take getting rest seriously.

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the problem with commuting trans-con is that you start working after you're already fatigued....

when you are working, crossing oceans and time zones, you start fresh so you can handle the fatigue that will set in.

we know this already.
 
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