Unresponsive AF 777-300

Wardogg said:
I'm not a fan of a control design that allows this.
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Well, until they make a yoke that will give a strong electric shock to the non-flying pilot, there’s not much you can do about a situation like this.

The 777 flight controls are inter-connected, just like every other airplane you’ve probably flown.

The way this incident reads, it’s bizarre these guys were fighting each other on the controls like that.
 
GypsyPilot said:
Well, until they make a yoke that will give a strong electric shock to the non-flying pilot, there’s not much you can do about a situation like this.

The 777 flight controls are inter-connected, just like every other airplane you’ve probably flown.

The way this incident reads, it’s bizarre these guys were fighting each other on the controls like that.
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So one moves the other? That 76 crash in Houston those guys were fighting each other so hard the Capt broke the mechanism IIRC. I was thinking this was more like the Airbus crash on their way to France from South America where the pilots were unaware of the other's input.
 
Repostin' this again (pls ignore that Scott Martin kinda looks like the Half-Life G-Man :D )


I would hope that much of the dogma around sidesticks and "Boeing knows best" can finally be dropped in the wake of the 787 battery design & fires, the MAX nickel-shaving and active cover-up, and KC-767 tool donation program & refueller nausea. For a long time now Boeing has called themselves a "systems integrator." So go do that ... steal everyones' best ideas (that haven't been patented, lol) and bring them all together to make modern passenger transports. They have, like, half a chance left to throw any weight around in an effort to bring the cost of new aircraft certification back from being a decade-long $15B prospect.
 
Minuteman said:
Repostin' this again (pls ignore that Scott Martin kinda looks like the Half-Life G-Man :D )


I would hope that much of the dogma around sidesticks and "Boeing knows best" can finally be dropped in the wake of the 787 battery design & fires, the MAX nickel-shaving and active cover-up, and KC-767 tool donation program & refueller nausea. For a long time now Boeing has called themselves a "systems integrator." So go do that ... steal everyones' best ideas (that haven't been patented, lol) and bring them all together to make modern passenger transports. They have, like, half a chance left to throw any weight around in an effort to bring the cost of new aircraft certification back from being a decade-long $15B prospect.
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Uhh, I wouldn’t be so quick to post about the Gulfstream after this weeks news. The airplane is essential a paperweight now. And this problem started in 2020.

View attachment MOL-500ml2205.pdf


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T/O w/FSII said:
Uhh, I wouldn’t be so quick to post about the Gulfstream after this weeks news. The airplane is essential a paperweight now. And this problem started in 2020.

View attachment 64606


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15kts max? 5kt gusts? Wow.

Also the vref+10 speed over the numbers....havent they been watching all the overruns we've been having lately? Theres been quite a few in the last month or so.
 
Wow! Didn't know about that one with the GVII. I have two takeaways from that:
  • It probably wasn't the crew's Active Sidestick controls that were the problem
  • It probably is more about the flight control software, which throws egge on my earlier statement of "Boeing should just act like a systems integrator." To my knowledge nobody makes drop-in flight control computers (except maybe for the "Ardupilat" project)
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Uhh, I wouldn’t be so quick to post about the Gulfstream after this weeks news. The airplane is essential a paperweight now. And this problem started in 2020.

View attachment 64606


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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So, uh, yeah, this is turning out to be "a thing" for G500s and G600s still. :ooh:


"The FAA is superseding Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2020-05-12, which applied to all Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation Model GVII-G500 and GVII-G600 airplanes. AD 2020-05-12 required revising the existing airplane flight manual (AFM) to incorporate revised limitations and procedures. This AD was prompted by reports of two landing incidents in which the alpha limiter engaged in the landing flare in unstable air, resulting in high rate of descent landings and damage to the airplanes. This AD retains certain requirements, and also adds and replaces certain AFM sections with more restrictive limitations and procedures. The FAA is issuing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products."

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(Figure 3 is just some blah about approach speed additives.)


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"Rapidly alternating pitch inputs"


I don't see this on the 737, but I saw this a LOT on the CRJ. I *never* understood it. It was usually the last ~20 feet, oftenly very large inputs, pushing in (forward), immediately pulling out (back), then again in, out, in, out, as they are trying to find some supposed sweet spot for touch down? News flash, your inputs aren't doing jack at this point as they try to cancel each other out. I did the same windy landings and never had to jockey the yoke that much in and out.



You want in and out, go to the restaurant.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
When it comes to most aircraft, we really don’t want to know how the sausage is made.
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As a pilot for fun / aerospace engineer for work (and fun), I live for this stuff! ;)

Edit: Where/what was that taken on? Looks like a big drum so elevator trim in the “hell hole” of the empennage of something big?
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I don't see this on the 737, but I saw this a LOT on the CRJ. I *never* understood it. It was usually the last ~20 feet, oftenly very large inputs, pushing in (forward), immediately pulling out (back), then again in, out, in, out, as they are trying to find some supposed sweet spot for touch down? News flash, your inputs aren't doing jack at this point as they try to cancel each other out. I did the same windy landings and never had to jockey the yoke that much in and out.
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Maybe they were Navy? :D

 
inigo88 said:
As a pilot for fun / aerospace engineer for work (and fun), I live for this stuff! ;)
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Every plane I've worked on had had at least ONE system with a 'yikes' response.
Sometimes how the wing is installed, a few on how the h-stab was attached, and some doors, more than a few electrical systems.

I learned to quit asking.
It never made me feel better
 
QA
inigo88 said:
As a pilot for fun / aerospace engineer for work (and fun), I live for this stuff! ;)

Edit: Where/what was that taken on? Looks like a big drum so elevator trim in the “hell hole” of the empennage of something big?
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I think you’re right. I just grabbed it off the Interwebs. I think it’s the cabling for elevator or elevator trim on a 737. Some of this stuff looks like it belongs on an oil well rig.

Minuteman said:
Maybe they were Navy? :D

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Flare to land, squat to pee.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
"Rapidly alternating pitch inputs"


I don't see this on the 737, but I saw this a LOT on the CRJ. I *never* understood it. It was usually the last ~20 feet, oftenly very large inputs, pushing in (forward), immediately pulling out (back), then again in, out, in, out, as they are trying to find some supposed sweet spot for touch down? News flash, your inputs aren't doing jack at this point as they try to cancel each other out. I did the same windy landings and never had to jockey the yoke that much in and out.
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LOL, there was a thread on pro pilot world 15 years ago about “yoke pumpers.” Some fool was making the argument that the pumping energized the boundary layer on the stab, making it more effective or something stupid like that.

one of the many threads on PPW which helped me make my decision to go 121.
 
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