Unions???
- Thread starter Pilotforhire587
- Start date
Cruise
Well-Known Member
I never said anything about being a victim, you did. I merely pointed out, that yet again, you spew falsehoods when you talk...very typical for a managerial type. You mentioned employees are paid for every minute they're at work. This is not true. I am happy to have a contract and I follow it. Sadly, most companies go well out of their way to abrogate their labor contracts whenever possible. So for you to talk about my employer holding me to the contract is a bunch of garbage. More times than not, it is the employee holding the company to the contract....after all, they agreed to it, they need to follow it (I seem to remember reading something like that somewhere recently).
You, and your positions on the workplace are inspiring for trade unionism and the recruitment of members and volunteers. So, again I thank you. I've printed several of your delusional viewpoints and share them with my fellow pilots. After all, it's good to have the views of "management" towards their workforce on paper when talking to new hires about why they should join our union.
Never said I was a pilot for an air carrier. I did work in the industry for 12 years in various operational positions, including dispatch, scheduling, and training. I now own and operate an education consulting business. I have 2 employees. I hired them fairly; they knew exactly what they were walking into. I pay them at least as well as they would get in a similar position elsewhere, but I did not start my business so that they could make all the money. It's my business; I took the risk. If it fails I'm the one who loses.
I never said anything about being a victim, you did. I merely pointed out, that yet again, you spew falsehoods when you talk...very typical for a managerial type. You mentioned employees are paid for every minute they're at work. This is not true. I am happy to have a contract and I follow it. Sadly, most companies go well out of their way to abrogate their labor contracts whenever possible. So for you to talk about my employer holding me to the contract is a bunch of garbage. More times than not, it is the employee holding the company to the contract....after all, they agreed to it, they need to follow it (I seem to remember reading something like that somewhere recently).
You, and your positions on the workplace are inspiring for trade unionism and the recruitment of members and volunteers. So, again I thank you. I've printed several of your delusional viewpoints and share them with my fellow pilots. After all, it's good to have the views of "management" towards their workforce on paper when talking to new hires about why they should join our union.
Airline pilots ARE paid for every minute they work. But their work is defined as when they are operating the airplane. Why your union chose to go that route, I've no idea, but as I say, that's what you agreed to. Let us also not forget all that "soft time" you guys like to talk about.
Hernandezcfi
Well-Known Member
Get a clue...How about work is defined as the minute one shows up as required by their employer at a certain time and place. I don't remember getting paid for all the times when I waited with my crew for hours waiting on weather to pass, a mechanic to show up, passengers to board...how about that extra hour I am required to show up before departure? That one is on me as well. How about the time the FO takes to preflight the aircraft??? ...another free one for the employer.
"Soft Time" is a little tip our unions worked hard to get us little worker ants. It does NOT replace an hourly rate for every god forsaken minute we are on the job but you could be sure we wouldn't even have that if we didn't band together and take it from Mr. Bigs. He sure is not willing to give it up out of the kindness of his heart! Your talking out of your ass!
Cruise
Well-Known Member
You're being obtuse. No, pilots are not paid for every minute they're at work. That's not disputable. For you to go on about how flight pay is defined & compensated is ridiculous. You're argument was that pilots are paid for every minute they're at work. This is simply not true. Now you want to change your rationale to say pilots are paid while working. That is correct. Again, words mean things are you're attempting to manipulate them. When I'm not flying, I'm still at work. If I'm not at home or out doing something I want to do.....I'm at work.
Also, I never said anything about the way our pay structure is defined, you did. Yes, a very long time ago someone thought it'd be a good idea to compensate flight hours as opposed to time at work. Was it a good idea? Well, to each his own. I contend flight hour pay leads in inefficient schedules because it doesn't cost anything to have us just sitting around....WHILE AT WORK. This leads to the so-called "soft pay" a la rigs or similar. So again let's be clear, pilots are not paid for every minute they're at work, as you contend.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
No you weren't the only one that takes a risk, you're not the only one who loses. Have you ever heard of opportunity cost?? This is micro econ 101. Not making any comments on your earlier posts or positions, just setting the record straight on this point.
Edit: I have owned a business before, and had like any other employee issues, so I am not unsympathetic to your views, just think you are calling the strike box to one side.
Bumblebee
Commodore
:yeahthat:No you weren't the only one that takes a risk, you're not the only one who loses. Have you ever heard of opportunity cost?? This is micro econ 101. Not making any comments on your earlier posts or positions, just setting the record straight on this point.
Edit: I have owned a business before, and had like any other employee issues, so I am not unsympathetic to your views, just think you are calling the strike box to one side.
by bringing my innovation, professionalism, energy and time I take a risk as well. My risk is that I brought these gifts to someone who see me as more than just a temporary means to their ends. I want to be involved in a concern that is successful and that will share those rewards (in proper ratios) when my extra effort helps to provide them. Some employers use the talents and skills of a more costly individual to build a business, often on a promise of shared rewards and then, when the goals are met, let them go to replace them with less talented or motivated individuals in order to maximize the profits to themselves.
WacoFan
Bigly
Bumblebee
Commodore
proving themselves to be liars and thieves....
http://forums.jetcareers.com/lavatory/125993-know-all.html
WacoFan
Bigly
Man...it isn't often that it happens...but my arguments are rendered useless to that link. Damn it. I hate you.
Pilots aren't the only ones who do "reduced rest" overnights. Dispatcher's have duty and rest requirements too. Many's the time I left my desk and reported back exactly 8 hours later. But unlike pilots, it wasn't required that I get get a "compensatory rest" period the following day.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Eh, I dispatched for about a year and a half and I never scared myself sitting at the desk doing a flight plan like I've been scared flying an airplane on reduced rest. Plus going to sleep in my own bed is worlds better for me than a strange hotel room.
I will say the international flight planning isn't nearly as intense as the domestic (US) guys trying to monitor 30-50 flights at once. Your mileage may vary.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Hehe, keep in mind the dispatchers work can be demanding too (in a different way). While maybe not equal, the two professions (if piloting or dispatching is a profession anymore) are comparable on many levels.
Although I'd love to see O+M with 4-5 hours sleep after a 15.5 hour day unintentionally nod off while looking right into the rising sun in the climbout and then shake his head so hard he knocks his headset off. Get the FA to get you a cup of coffee immediately because you've got 3 more legs that day and it isn't going to get any easier.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
I worked in the Ops Center for a small ACMI while furloughed, and the most dangerous thing I ever saw a dispatcher do was open a can of soda. Equating the job of dispatching to actually operating an aircraft is very humourous. I've watched dispatchers pull double shifts and the worst thing that happened when they fell asleep was we screwed with them. Unfortunatey, hilarity does not ensue when one falls asleep from fatigue while flying.
Nice try O&M, but that dog just don't hunt.
Nice try O&M, but that dog just don't hunt.
ljg
Well-Known Member
I won't argue that certains days in an OCC can be demanding, but unless you've sat in both offices, you have no true comprehension of the statement you just made above. Makes me wonder what else you've posted on here that you truly don't have a sufficient understanding of.
Great sentiment to put out there about your 2 employees, who probably each wear about 30 different hats a day and most assuredly have taken personal ownership in seeing your business succeed.