Unions???

.it was more than the Union that brought down the Lackawana Plant but its easyest to blame the workers Union.

OG

I'll grant you that it wasn't entirely the Union that killed off the american steel industry, however I'll maintain that they hold the lion's share of the responsiblity for it. In other words, it's easy to blame the union because the union deserves most of the blame.

No doubt the unions were necessary back in the 1920's & 30's, but those days were 80 to 90 years ago. Those days are long gone. So too are the days when the unions actually represented workers interests rather than the union leadership's interests. You can't keep living in the past.
 
I'll grant you that it wasn't entirely the Union that killed off the american steel industry, however I'll maintain that they hold the lion's share of the responsiblity for it. In other words, it's easy to blame the union because the union deserves most of the blame.

No doubt the unions were necessary back in the 1920's & 30's, but those days were 80 to 90 years ago. Those days are long gone. So too are the days when the unions actually represented workers interests rather than the union leadership's interests. You can't keep living in the past.

I'd love to live in the idyllic world that you do, but people, and the world do not change that quickly. 90 years is the blink of an eye, and the price of having a decent job is constant vigilance, which a union provides.
 
I'd love to live in the idyllic world that you do, but people, and the world do not change that quickly. 90 years is the blink of an eye, and the price of having a decent job is constant vigilance, which a union provides.

Why you young whippersnapper!!!
 
Why you young whippersnapper!!!

Hey old man, when do I stop being a whippersnapper and start being an old man? Because I've been told this my entire life, and at this point I'm thinking either I'm going to live forever, or the phrase is a little off :)
 
The 300 looked like a Bentley! What more do you want?

chrysler300_6.jpeg

Spinner wheelcovers!
 
No they're not. They're not even illegal in most of the states. Only 22 states have Right To Work laws

After you've read the Taft-Hartley Act, and learned the difference between closed shop and agency shop, and learned what so-called "right to work laws" really do, get back to me.

Closed shops have been illegal in the United States since 1947.
 
I was referring to another posters attitude of superiority in considering the majority of his employees senseless schmucks, comparing them to motor oil, tools or numbers. It's that attitude that may help to arouse people's desire to gain help from third parties, in dealing with how they are treated. When push comes to shove, things change in a hurry, the business fails or becomes a high turnover menace. I guess what I am trying to say is that it's best to be realistic in applying conservative measures to how you run your business, but not to the extreme of creating liberals out of people you could have had on your side. If your employees feel as if they need help in dealing with you, something is FUBAR.

I think you completely misunderstood my post. Spectacularly misunderstood my post in fact.

Employees are tools. They need to have a use. Period. My job is to get the job done (using tools) for the least cost to maximize profit. The end. That is my job.

I think you need to understand what I'm saying. If you think that at their core ANY employer thinks differently, I think you will be disappointed. The reason you treat them well, pay them well (but not more "well" than you need to) is to keep the machine running and the hope that doing this will result in lower long-term costs. Period. You need to step out of your emotional response and understand that is what gives people like me an edge - you can live in your happy world of a boss that you don't THINK views you as a usefool tool if you wish - but I imagine that if you try and see it from the other guys point of view it will make you more successful in your future vocational negotiations.

I'm not really sure you grasped what I was saying in my post in any way. As I said, a spectacular reading comprehension failure.
 
And BTW, how come doing the "right" thing always means the employer "treating the employees better," rather that the employee advancing his position through hard work and ingenuity?
Because at the moment, almost nobody is getting paid fair for the work they do. There has been a steady assault on middle class wages for the past 30 years. People would go to greener pastures if they existed but they don't, which means people have to start making noise and causing problems to get the pay they deserve.

Look up the average ceo to employee pay in the 50's and look at it now. It used to be about 20:1, now it is right around 300:1

I get the impression you run a small business and I feel compelled to believe you when you say you pay your employees fair. However, these larger corporations are basically slave driving and it needs to change.


ps it's easy to find this info. all over google but I figured I'd at least post a link

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Gap-Between-Executives-and-Worker/2863448
 
Wages have stagnated in absolute values since the 70s, and when you consider inflation that is a reduction in buying power of between 30 and 40%. However productivity has gone up significantly. Do much more for much less.
 
And all 50 states are right to work states.

Are you sure?

According to National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, Inc. only the following are "right to work" states:

Alabama | Arizona | Arkansas | Florida | Georgia | Guam | Idaho | Iowa | Kansas | Louisiana | Mississippi | Nebraska | Nevada | North Carolina | North Dakota | Oklahoma |South Carolina | South Dakota | Tennessee | Texas | Utah | Virginia | Wyoming


The rest are classified on the site as "Forced Unionism" states.


However, in the supposedly "forced unionism" State of California, I found the following text from an employment manual:

To protect both parties’ rights, it should be
remembered that your employment relationship with the Company is “at-will” and is not for any
set period of time. “At-will” employment means you are free to resign at any time, just as the
Company is free to change the terms and conditions of your employment with or without cause
and with or without notice, including but not limited to termination, demotion, promotion, transfer,
compensation, benefits, duties, and location and hours of work, etc., so long as there is no
violation of applicable federal or state law.

After you've read the Taft-Hartley Act, and learned the difference between closed shop and agency shop, and learned what so-called "right to work laws" really do, get back to me.

Closed shops have been illegal in the United States since 1947.

However, "agency shop" can apparently force your employer to terminate your employment if you choose not to pay dues. You are bound to the dues if you work in a union shop.

ARTICLE 2 - EMPLOYMENT PROCEDURES
A. UNION SECURITY All employees shall, as a condition of employment, pay to the Union the
initiation fees and/or reinstatement fees and periodic dues lawfully required by the Union. This obligation
shall commence on the thirty-first (31st) day following the date of employment by the Employer who is
signatory to this Agreement, or the effective date of this Agreement, or the date of signature, whichever is
later.
B. NOTICE OF NEWHIRES. The Employer agrees to notify the Union, in writing, within fourteen (14)
days from the date of first employment of any employee subject to this Agreement, of the name of such
employee,mailing address, store number, Social Security number, the position forwhich employed, the date
of first employment and the rate of pay at which the person is employed.
C. CONDITIONS OF WORK FOR NEW EMPLOYEES. The Employer shall pay such person so
employed during the period said person is not amember of the Union, the regular Union wages provided for
in this Agreement for the class of work said person is doing, and shall in all other respects require said
person to work under and live up to all of the provisions set forth in this Agreement.
9
D. ENFORCEMENT. The parties hereto agree that this Article 2 shall be implemented and enforced as
hereinafter set forth.
1. Introductory Letter. This letter will be sent by the Union to the employee's home (if the Employer
has complied with Article 2-B of this Agreement requiring the Employer to supply such home address to the
Union), or to the store where the employee is employed.
(a) This letter will quote the language of Article 2-Aof thisAgreement and advise employees of
the Union's office hours and other matters relating to the employee's satisfaction of his obligations under
Article 2-A of this Agreement.
(b) A copy of this letter shall be sent to the Employer's Industrial Relations Department on the
same date that the original of the letter is sent to the employee.
2. All employees will be billed for their appropriate initiation fee and/or reinstatement fee and/or
periodic dues lawfully applied in accordance with the Bylaws of the respective Local Unions.
3. DelinquencyNotice. This notice will be sent to the employee's home address (if the Employer has
furnished the Union with such information); otherwise it will be sent to the store in which the employee
works, with copies sent to the Industrial Relations Department of the Employer and to the store manager.
The delinquency letter is to be sent to the employee specifically advising him that:
(a) He is delinquent in his financial obligations to the Union;
(b) Advising him of the specific amount due;
(c) How the amount is computed;
(d) The date the sum must be received by the Union;
(e) The penalty for noncompliance, i.e., discharge if the obligation has not been met; and
(f) Address and telephone number of the Local Union offices and hours of operation.
4. Termination Notice. The termination notice shall be sent to the Employer involved. The copy to
be sent to the employee shall be sent to the employee's home address (if the Employer has furnished the
Union with such information). If the Employer has not furnished such information, the copy shall be sent to
the employee at the store where the employee works.
(a) The termination notice will be sent at such time as the employee has ignored all efforts by
the Union to obtain compliance with this Article 2.
(b) The notice will advise the Employer that the employee has failed to complywith the Union
Security Clause of this Agreement in that the employee has not paid the initiation fees and/or reinstatement
fees and/or dues as lawfully applied. In addition, the notice shall advise that the Union has complied with
the decisions of the National Labor Relations Board, as well as its own International Constitution and
Bylaws with regard to the required procedural steps of notifying the employee of the delinquency.
10
 
California is an implied-in-law state, not an at-will state. You are thought to have, by nature of your employment, a contract of sorts of "good faith." It isn't surprising that you find conflicting information in an employee handbook, a lot of the time employeers put in outright illegal things... for example "requiring" you to agree to binding arbitration in all disputes.
 
So Jtrain, would the industry be better if everyone was in a union? (serious question... no ulterior motive)
 

The profession definitely would be. Look at doctors and the AMA which is just a clever guild. If we could as a group regulate the influx of commercial pilots the way the AMA regulates the number of slots available at medical schools things would be much better.
 
The profession definitely would be. Look at doctors and the AMA which is just a clever guild. If we could as a group regulate the influx of commercial pilots the way the AMA regulates the number of slots available at medical schools things would be much better.

Truth.

At the same time look at how the ABA has FAILED to do just that and the resulting market saturation in that field.
 
I am still amazed that the unions aren't more active in trying to get employees to unionize, I understand that the actual drive is internal but the union would benefit from increased union members, the profession would be better represented and it would counter act the information put out by companies looking to keep unions out (we will just close the doors and the such), if they would just talk to potential union members. I can't see how it wouldn't be a win win for the unions to at least make themselves available for employees at non union shops in an informal off property kind of way.
the last time I brought this up, I was quickly told that " this is not how unions work", but looking at the union membership numbers, would it be a good time to change things up?
 
I am still amazed that the unions aren't more active in trying to get employees to unionize,

They're more active at that than they'e ever been. Workers just ain't buying what they're trying to sell them.
 
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