UND Contract Student Injured in C172 Solo Crash at PKD

[juxtapilot]

That one part where the guy gets out and parks the car for the lady is priceless.

:rotfl:

 

[FlyMan07]

"Accident waiting to happen" was definitely right. I feel bad for saying this, but it was only a matter of when, not if. Having instructed some of those guys, I can honestly say I'm not surprised. That being said, I hope the guy recovers well.

:yeahthat:

 

[FlyingOfficer]

A university-owned Cessna sits off the runway at the Park Rapids Municipal Airport after a crash Saturday evening. The pilot received minor injuries. To the right are tracks from the plane's bumpy journey off the runway. (Sarah Smith/Enterprise)

 

[TXaviator]

good picture! hard to tell if those tracks were from him coming back down, or if he never got off the ground in the first place....

 

[mokulele]

Scary. Well, it was only a matter of time, I suppose.

I'm glad the student is okay, but I'd really hate to be that student's flight instructor right about now. I wonder how UND will work this one out this time...

 

[TXaviator]

its interesting that none of our UND cheerleaders have weighed in on the subject, considering its directly relevant to our discussion.

do you think this kid used his pretakeoff checklist?

 

[av8or91]

Talked to someone in standards today who had just talked to dana and they are saying that power was low, (as can be seen by the prop) and they are suspecting either a mechanical malfunction causing a loss of engine power or stall after takeoff which isn't consistent with the way the prop bent unless he pulled power back.

I think its ridiculous that they push the Air China's through training and im guilty of it. One thing I have not done is let someone go solo or in for a stage check unless I knew they could pass even if it means going to review board.

 

[TXaviator]

hard to tell from the pic, but it sure looks like he just drove it off the end of the runway.... id also LOVE to hear the explanation for this one.

 

[Prom]

Driving off the end of the runway shouldn't cause theengine to be "severed" as was stated in one report, however speculation is one of the worst things in this business.

I was gonna go off on a tangent about everyone expecting the Air China students to crash just because they are chinese, but I dont think this is the place for that discussion. Some of them are truely fine aviators, and I am glad Li walked away safely, that is all from me.

 

[TXaviator]

no one here suggested that merely because of their race/ethnicity they should be expected to crash, so don't add your own commentary to my words.

however we DO/DID expect them to crash because of many things... some of which being, rushed training, inadequate mastery of the knowledge, skills, and abilities required of an aviator, extremely poor ADM possibly due to cultural differences, etc.

no one here wished physical harm on the guy either.

 

[Blip16]

its interesting that none of our UND cheerleaders have weighed in on the subject, considering its directly relevant to our discussion.

do you think this kid used his pretakeoff checklist?

what is the point of commenting? it is all speculation anyway

 

[Prom]

Sorry TX, didnt mean to sound like I was singleing you out.

I agree there are problems inherent in training due to cultural differences and rushed training and that changes should be made, however I have known people who nearly panic every time they hear a chinese voice on the radio, practically praying that they dont come anywhere nearby. I understand that it is difficult to understand them and as always you should keep your SA up when any aircraft comes near, but I remember my first solo XC and I know for a fact that alot of Chinese instrument students flying solo have more experience/knowledge/abilities than I had back then, yet they are treated differently than english speaking students. I know there are problems yet there are Chinese students who I truely enjoyed flying with and they were great pilots and I had no problem sending them solo, while there were english speaking students I was afraid to put my name in their logbook. It goes both ways, but many people focus on the bad and perpetuate it.

 

[TXaviator]

Prom I agree it most definitely goes both ways, and being an inept pilot knows no limitation of race or ethnicity !


Hopefully this incident will bring corrective action to UND's program, before someone gets seriously hurt or killed as a result of current policies/business decisions.

 

[400A]

its interesting that none of our UND cheerleaders have weighed in on the subject, considering its directly relevant to our discussion.

do you think this kid used his pretakeoff checklist?

What is there to say? If the argument is made that he didn't follow procedures you will just say that UNDs training is inadequete, if the argument is made that he did follow procedures then you will argue that all the rules (of which there aren't that many) are for not.

I don't think anyone here is a cheerleader, but you guys have this giant chip on your shoulder thinking that UND is some way wronged you and revenge must be exacted. The only way you can think of to do it is to tell people not to go to the school based on half truths and exaggerations.

I want you to find one post by anyone who you classify as a cheerleader that urges people to go to UND and compare those number of posts to the number of posts from you and others that bash UND. Of course you would argue that the lack of "urging" to go to UND is proof that there is something wrong with the program.

What is the accident rate for UND anyway?

 

[oktex88]

Hopefully this incident will bring corrective action to UND's program, before someone gets seriously hurt or killed as a result of current policies/business decisions.

So you are saying that you think certain polices or business decisions at UND contributed to this incident?

Which ones in particular do you think contributed to this incident?

 

[TXaviator]

So you are saying that you think certain polices or business decisions at UND contributed to this incident?

Which ones in particular do you think contributed to this incident?

The pushing of contract students through the system and pressuring of CFI's to sign off/pass contract students at lower standards than held for domestic students, because contract students = dollars.

This corporate culture has been reported to me directly by CFI's who where pressured to pass/sign off contract students who they didnt not feel were ready.

 

[400A]

The pushing of contract students through the system and pressuring of CFI's to sign off/pass contract students at lower standards than held for domestic students, because contract students = dollars.

This corporate culture has been reported to me directly by CFI's who where pressured to pass/sign off contract students who they didnt not feel were ready.

That is a very big accusation, especially since it is second hand. I am not naive enough to say it isn't happening, but it isn't happening to YOU.

I ARAMCO students while at UND and was never pressured to do anything, both as an instructor and as a check pilot.

 

[Blip16]

The pushing of contract students through the system and pressuring of CFI's to sign off/pass contract students at lower standards than held for domestic students, because contract students = dollars.

This corporate culture has been reported to me directly by CFI's who where pressured to pass/sign off contract students who they didnt not feel were ready.

trust me, there are not pressuring anyone to pass/lower standards for the contract students. there is pressure to get some of them done/caught up because of the time schedule they are on, but there is not anyone i am aware of telling people to just pass them!

 

[pwttogfk]

I ARAMCO students while at UND and was never pressured to do anything, both as an instructor and as a check pilot.

The ARAMCO students also are in the normal undergrad ground schools and already have advanced educations from other English-speaking universities. I had a guy in my 222 class with a degree from Oxford, I think. I've gotten to know a couple of the ARAMCO students, and they're freakin' geniuses. Plus, they're not segregated into their own ground schools that're operated at a cram pace.

 

[TXaviator]

The ARAMCO students also are in the normal undergrad ground schools and already have advanced educations from other English-speaking universities. I had a guy in my 222 class with a degree from Oxford, I think. I've gotten to know a couple of the ARAMCO students, and they're freakin' geniuses. Plus, they're not segregated into their own ground schools that're operated at a cram pace.

Agreed. I was close friends with some ARAMCO guys and they are serious academic machines. Bright guys, and understood what was going on. They had cultural challenges to overcome as well, but their integration into class and the university experience as a whole seemed to have made it much easier for them to adapt/understand. Many of them were also active in the International Students programs (I was as well), I do not know if the Chinese/Taiwanese students are participating in other campus activities such as those....anyone know?

As for the CFI pressuring, I'll let the firsthand sources speak up if they want, but if you REALLY, REALLY think the contract students are on the same level as the domestic students, you are only deluding yourself.

I'm very glad I'm not flying in that area of the sky anymore.