UGH..19%? why not just take 20 and call it a day?!

Kristie

Mama Bear....
Staff member
that's the word from the dh tonight.. he'll be on here shortly, he's taking a time out to calm himself down - like many other DAL pilots are probably doing tonight...I hope the union represents it's clients to it's full extent because I could see big heads rolling if this actual amount is permitted.

We already know the pensions are probably going to be lost but could you imagine how the old timers, the 50+ pilots, feel about losing their pension and a full 48.5% in ONE year? i can't...not to mention the families with children???

I mean if an FO makes $50K and he's losing 48.5%, he'd be making just over $25K at the end of the day.. plus dues.. plus commuting costs.. plus food while on the road.. plus cell phone to talk to his family.. plus missing holidays, never being home etc etc etc....it's just not worth it. it's not worth it to take it in the butt because management can't economically balance the books..

someone please tell me why the pilots should be paying for the fuel increases & bad money management?
confused.gif


and does anyone know where the $1 BILLION dollars went that the pilots gave only 9 short months ago??? I'm really confused about that!
confused.gif


I think i can talk about it (to a point)... but i don't think doug can unless it's behind closed doors...
 
That SUCKS majorly Kristie (and Doug) ... it makes me sick. It truly does.
 
[ QUOTE ]
that's the word from the dh tonight.. he'll be on here shortly, he's taking a time out to calm himself down - like many other DAL pilots are probably doing tonight...I hope the union represents it's clients to it's full extent because I could see big heads rolling if this actual amount is permitted.

We already know the pensions are probably going to be lost but could you imagine how the old timers, the 50+ pilots, feel about losing their pension and a full 51.5% in ONE year? i can't...not to mention the families with children???

I mean if an FO makes $50K and he's losing 51.5%, he'd be making just over $25K at the end of the day.. plus dues.. plus commuting costs.. plus food while on the road.. plus cell phone to talk to his family.. plus missing holidays, never being home etc etc etc....it's just not worth it. it's not worth it to take it in the butt because management can't economically balance the books..

someone please tell me why the pilots should be paying for the fuel increases & bad money management?
confused.gif


and does anyone know where the $1 BILLION dollars went that the pilots gave only 9 short months ago??? I'm really confused about that!
confused.gif


I think i can talk about it (to a point)... but i don't think doug can unless it's behind closed doors...

[/ QUOTE ]

51.5%? I thought they were reduced by 32% the first time and now 19%...either way it bites a huge fatty
banghead.gif


***Just to clarify my math - It was 32.5% out of 100% pay, now it is 19% off of 67.5% original pay. It is probably closer to an overall cut of 45.5%

banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
... but i don't think doug can unless it's behind closed doors...

[/ QUOTE ]

He and I will be talking........

Question: Is there going to be any effect to the recently recalled pilots that came off furlough? In the sense of, they're not going to be sent back on furlough, are they?
 
[ QUOTE ]

***Just to clarify my math - It was 32.5% out of 100% pay, now it is 19% off of 67.5% original pay. It is probably closer to an overall cut of 45.5%

[/ QUOTE ] hmmm...your right about that! I miscalculated and based the cost off of a straight 100%.. i think it's closer to 48.5%...sorry bout that!

it's still close enough to 50% for me though....

and MikeD, we don't know about furloughs yet.. if there will be any or not.. i'm assuming management will come on saying it's 19% or furloughs.. typical tactic.
 
[ QUOTE ]

and MikeD, we don't know about furloughs yet.. if there will be any or not.. i'm assuming management will come on saying it's 19% or furloughs.. typical tactic.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would definitely suck, any way it's played. Isn't Doug and I's former roomate "Little Joey" back on the line and off furlough now?
 
Let's put it this way, browsing thte sentiment over on the Delta ALPA forum, I think we've just become a union for the first time in history.

Too bad it didn't happen earlier, but apparently the company wants to scrap and I'm afraid they're going to get it.
 
Someone needs to open the books and see where the moneys going. The cut 9 months ago + the looming cut is just rediculous.

When are the higher ups gonna realize that you can't get blood from a stone and start rasing prices to what they should be. With break even points in the 90% range no wonder they're losing money. It really saddens me because when I see this there really isn't any future in aviation. No hope or reason to shoot for the majors one day.

My dog learns about consequences faster than these guys. I like to lay the blame on SWA but thats another topic.

Best of luck to guys at DAL and especially you Doug and Kristie.
 
[ QUOTE ]

and does anyone know where the $1 BILLION dollars went that the pilots gave only 9 short months ago??? I'm really confused about that!

[/ QUOTE ]

Delta was burning through close to 3-5 million per day for the past 10-12 months, I believe that Delta entered bankruptcy with close to 2 billion dollars in cash.

The cash will be needed in bankrupty as Delta's credit will be shot & they will have to pay for everything that they acrue after entering bankruptcy proceedings.
 
so you thnk the 1 billion was just sitting there accruing in a bank, waiting for bankrupcy?
 
Good luck to you guys. This is a prime example of why I want to stay as far away from the airlines as I possibly can. I'm not saying that I would never take a job with one, but I will avoid it like the plague. The QOL is going down the crapper so fast it's making your heads spin.
 
[ QUOTE ]
so you thnk the 1 billion was just sitting there accruing in a bank, waiting for bankruptcy?

[/ QUOTE ]

That I can not answer, the only thing that I can tell you is that before a company apply's for bankruptcy protection, they have to raise cash.

The money from the pilots that you are talking about was probably used to keep the company going, the cash that is in the bank could have come any number of sources, didn't Delta sell a regional airline recently?
 
Well, encouraging that everybody is sharing in the pain.....

[ QUOTE ]
The company's chief executive, Gerald Grinstein, will take a 25 percent pay cut and all other executives will take a 15 percent pay cut.



[/ QUOTE ]
 
DL messed up on this one. When you make offers that are so rediculously low you really get everyone together. Right now it looks like the pilots can all say together, "what do we have to lose" .
 
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps someone should ask the passengers on that jetblue flight if they think the pilots are overpaid...

[/ QUOTE ]



No kidding. I wonder how long before the "pilots make too much money" talk is restarted.
 
I didnt see a post on here of todays cuts for the non pilot group. My division ACS, is taking a 9% cut on Nov 1. FA's are 9 or 10% depending on senority and mtc is taking a 7%. Insurance is going up 20 more dollars a month on premiums and they are capping vacation weeks. I now will never go above 4 weeks. The guys with 5 already are grandfathered. Pensions are frozen indefinetly. Loss of 1 floating holiday. No overtime pay if you take a paid IV day or holiday during your work week and then work overtime on off day. Delta only matching 401k with 2% cash instead of stock. Tuition reimbursement is gone now you apply for a scholarship, whatever that means. Adoption help is cut to $1500. Sick days are converted to personal days and only 5 a year. OJI pay is gone now everything will go through workmans comp then short term and then long term disablitly. A few weeks ago payroll deduction was cut out completely. Get ready for employees in worn out clothes and shoes. I am sure I am forgetting something but this the jist of it. In just about a year I have now taken a 19% pay cut and huge insurance premium increase. Rougly guessing it will now lose about another $300-$400 a month in salary and benefits. Oh another one is we have to pay $50 a year to activate our pass privileges.
 
it was just posted -> Delta plans to cut 9,000

I hadn't heard anything about that till now...how's morale in your division? are you gonna be ok? is your job, for the most part, safe?

the contract for the pilots looks a little similar, yet different.. hitting below the belt in differing areas...

If i can find it, i'll post it! I found it..I actually got this from another
shocked.gif
forum!

I figure there's something to learn here since we didn't have information from the packages that were asked by US Airways and/or United Pilots when they entered BK. otherwise, we would have started the whole "what bankrupcy entails" conversations back then!

[ QUOTE ]
Your Negotiating Committee received a formal proposal from management on September 12, 2005. This is a comprehensive, deeply concessionary package that includes proposed changes in numerous sections of our PWA. Management placed the value of their proposed pilot concessions at $325,000,000 per year.
--
MANAGEMENT'S SUMMARY OF DELTA'S PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE PILOT WORKING AGREEMENT

September 12, 2005

The following proposals are not represented or intended to be an exhaustive listing of all the changes that may be submitted to the Association by the Company for consideration during the course of negotiations.
(Note: All cites are to latest incorporation documents)

Section 1 - Scope

· Section 1 B. 17. c. Redefine permitted aircraft type to permit 200 79-
seat jets
· Section 1 E. and F. Delete required minimum flying, planned percentages and minimum international flying
· Section 1 H. Delete poison pill
· Section 1 J. Delete furlough provisions

Section 3 - Compensation

· Section 3 A. 5. Minutes under on rotation basis
(Aggregate for entire rotation - greater of scheduled block time or actual block time)
· Section 3 B. Reduce composite hourly rates by 19.5%,
establish rate for 100-seat jets
($88.93 Captain/$60.74 F/O year 12, $82.26 Captain/$44.01 F/O year 2)
· Section 3 C. and D. Delete international and night pay
· Section 3 H. Improve profit sharing plan to provide 15% payout at first dollar and 20% on pre-tax income over $1.5B; delete stock option plan
Section 5 - Lodging and Expenses

· Section 5 B. 1. & 2. Establish per diem at $1.80 domestic and
$2.05 international

Section 6 - Relocation

· Section 6 Modify relocation provisions to provide for paid move only if pilot moves to his new base
(Within 125 miles of the new base; in addition, Company will pay a lump sum of $1000 in lieu of paying for house hunting, rental car, etc.)

Section 7 - Vacation

· Section 7 A. 5. Change value of vacation day to 2:45 hours
· Section 7 B. 1. a. Eliminate fifth and sixth weeks of vacation and change
rate of accrual
(Year 1 - 8, 2 weeks/Year 9 - 15, 3 weeks/Year 16 and up, 4 weeks)
· Section 7 F. 1. Company may proffer to liquidate vacation
(Similar to clause in Letter #44)

Section 9 - Miscellaneous Flying

· Section 9 B. 2. Remove pay protection when administrative pilot flies open time

Section 12 - Hours of Service

· Section 12 A. 15. Reduce release time to 15 minutes
· Section 12 A. 17. Relief crew may be two first officers
· Section 12 A. 19. b. 1) Reduce report time to one hour for Hawaii flights
· Section 12 D. Change duty time limitations
(Report 0600-1759, 13:30 hour duty day/Report
1800-0559, 12:00 hour duty day)
· Section 12 H. and J. Delete duty period average
· Section 12 I. Increase duty period minimum to 3:00
· Section 12 K. Delete duty period credit
· Section 12 L. 1. Reduce rotation credit to one for four
· Section 12 M. 1. & 2. Modify application of credit rules
(Essentially, no pay guarantee for a rotation value as it is constructed - just the greater of, on a rotation basis, the rotation credit, sum of DPMs or total block time)

Section 14 - Sick Leave

· Section 14 C. Delete accident leave
(For an injury on duty - only sick leave available)
· Section 14 E. 1. a. and b. Establish sick leave benefit that provides full pay/credit for the first 20 hours of sick leave and 60% pay and full credit for hours used thereafter; establish 60 hour supplemental bank
(The supplemental bank can only be used once in a pilot's career, and would equate to raising a pilot to full pay for a period of approximately 2 months)

Section 21 - Furlough and Recall

· Section 21 B. 3. Reduce furlough pay
(To a maximum pay of 3 months pay for a pilot with over 6 years of longevity)
· Section 21 B. 8. and 10. Eliminate scheduling restrictions when pilots on furlough

Section 22 - Filling of Vacancies

· Section 22 A. 19. Delete TLV
· Section 22 C. Modify PBS staffing formula to reduce
position requirement
(Allows company to operate at 95% of formula requirement
without a need to pay protect any pilots)
· Section 22 G. 1. Increase category freeze from 24 to 36 months
· Section 22 G. 4. First Officers in Delta 100 seat operation may only
bid to Delta 100 seat Captain positions

Section 23 - Scheduling

· Section 23 N. & O. Reorder open time coverage steps
· Section 23 S. 2. a. 1) Allow Company to assign reserve to ALV plus 15
(Reserve pilot not considered full until ALV +15 hours)
· Section 23 S. 11. and 12. Eliminate payback days if reserve green slips on X-day
· Section 23 U. 3. Reduce IA premium pay from double pay to one
and one-half pay


Section 25 - Medical, Dental, Optional Life and Accidental Insurance Benefits

· Section 25 Pilots who retire after September 1, 2005 will have access to retiree healthcare at 100% of cost
(After retirement the pilot must pay entire cost of healthcare plan selected - no company provided healthcare postretirement)

Section 26 - Retirement, Basic Life Insurance, Disability and Survivor Benefits

· Section 26 J. 5. Hard freeze DB plan effective December 31, 2005
· Section 26 L. 1. and 2. Eliminate 401k contributions
· D & S Plan Amend D & S Plan to change eligibility requirements and limit period of time pilot is eligible for disability
(After 2 years on disability a pilot must meet the Social Security definition
of disabled to be eligible - essentially unable to function)
· D & S Plan Effective January 1, 2008, discontinue survivor benefits and replace with $500,000 term life insurance

Section 28 - Duration

· Section 28 A. 1. Extend duration of agreement by one year
(to December 31, 2010)

Letters of Agreement

· Letter of Agreement 44 Extend duration of LOA 44 to July 1, 2006
· Letter of Agreement 45 Extend duration of LOA 45 to July 1, 2006
and eliminate Association's ability to unilaterally
terminate
· Letter of Agreement 47 Extend duration of 2005 CRAF LOA to December 31, 2010

Note: Several items were omitted by the Company from their summary. These include:
Allow an annual pass usage fee.
Not allow free parking at flight attendant satellite bases for commuting pilots.



[/ QUOTE ]
 
Back
Top