UA 737 charter gone wrong at KLWS

BobDDuck said:
I just did a dod charter where the soldiers loaded their own bags, under the direction of our loadmaster. The fueling was all handled by the base guys. I had to go look up operational differences between JP8 and Jet A.
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All I fly is DOD and USFS contract; so I see all the different ways business gets done at different places. Army and Navy locations will refuel you, AF locations will bring the truck up, but either your person, a transient alert person, or someone else has to do the actual hooking up, the truck driver won’t, he just rolls out the hoses and operates the truck.

Want to know some BS. At some locations, places like Million Air would charge up to $4000 for ramp service not including fuel, yet would provide nothing. Not even a belt loader. The 737 has its own stairs, so those aren’t needed. The troops would be loading their own bags into the holds. $4000 for only being marshaled out and marshaled out. What a scam at the two locations I know of that do it this way.
 
BobDDuck said:
I just did a dod charter where the soldiers loaded their own bags, under the direction of our loadmaster. The fueling was all handled by the base guys. I had to go look up operational differences between JP8 and Jet A.
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The PC-12 only listed JP4 which I guess is obsolete as an approved fuel. Looking for fuel at Elmendorf couldn’t confirm through company that we could take JP8, so ended up hopping to ANC for gas. Of course it turned out that if you got hold of the Pratt service bulletin JP8 was all good to go.
 
Roger Roger said:
The PC-12 only listed JP4 which I guess is obsolete as an approved fuel. Looking for fuel at Elmendorf couldn’t confirm through company that we could take JP8, so ended up hopping to ANC for gas. Of course it turned out that if you got hold of the Pratt service bulletin JP8 was all good to go.
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JP4 civil equivalent is Jet B. JP 8 and JP 8+100 has largely been replaced by Jet A or A+ at mil bases except Navy/USMC.

Jet A has been suspected in some coke-ing issues in some civil engines.
 
MikeD said:
All I fly is DOD and USFS contract; so I see all the different ways business gets done at different places. Army and Navy locations will refuel you, AF locations will bring the truck up, but either your person, a transient alert person, or someone else has to do the actual hooking up, the truck driver won’t, he just rolls out the hoses and operates the truck.

Want to know some BS. At some locations, places like Million Air would charge up to $4000 for ramp service not including fuel, yet would provide nothing. Not even a belt loader. The 737 has its own stairs, so those aren’t needed. The troops would be loading their own bags into the holds. $4000 for only being marshaled out and marshaled out. What a scam at the two locations I know of that do it this way.
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When I worked the FBO ramp in CLT they did that to most cargo charters. Charged a huge fee and that was with no help from us. Used to really piss me off.
 
MikeD said:
Army and Navy locations will refuel you, AF locations will bring the truck up, but either your person, a transient alert person, or someone else has to do the actual hooking up, the truck driver won’t, he just rolls out the hoses and operates the truck.
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MikeD said:
JP8+100 has largely been replaced by Jet A or A+ at mil bases except Navy/USMC.
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This was at an OCONUS AF base. The JP8 truck driver did the hookup and pumping.
 
MikeD said:
we carry a maintenance person with us on our flights who doubles as a loadmaster. Also is the fueler at military bases where the fuels truck drivers don’t actually fuel the planes. Isn’t this done on these charters to places where there is no specific ground handling?
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United has a station at LWS. One flight a day to DEN. In an RJ. There's your ground handling for you.
 
Fedex DC-10, Gemini MD-11, metroliners (San Antonio sewer pipe) etc... all have done it many times over :p
 
Maybe a stupid question, but I honestly don’t know - what’s the procedure for tipping this thing back? Tipping isn’t a widely known issue on any type I’ve flown.

Granted that I’m sure it tips slowly because it’s so close to the envelope, but can’t be real safe for pax to be standing in the aisle while this is happening.
 
turbojet28 said:
Maybe a stupid question, but I honestly don’t know - what’s the procedure for tipping this thing back? Tipping isn’t a widely known issue on any type I’ve flown.

Granted that I’m sure it tips slowly because it’s so close to the envelope, but can’t be real safe for pax to be standing in the aisle while this is happening.
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It probably needs some pretty serious body work. Even putting a caravan on its ass causes quite a bit of structural damage.
 
Roger Roger said:
We did have one tip on its tail when snow accumulated can’t remember if it had the stand in and the stand just slipped or if it was removed
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I've got 99 problems but a Lear ain't one. Maybe it's something to do with that aft baggage locker.
 
Derg said:
When a modern aircraft still needs a pole, it’s just stupidly designed.
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fDpq7.jpg
 
MikeD said:
Want to know some BS. At some locations, places like Million Air would charge up to $4000 for ramp service not including fuel, yet would provide nothing.
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I'll add fuel to the fire. About 3 months ago we were picking up troops in LAS and Signature charged us $8000 ramp/facility fees (not including the 16,000 gals. we took). All they did was marshal us in to the customs ramp and watch the DoD load their own bags.
 
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