Twin Rates

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Gajre539

Well-Known Member
What is the average rental rate of a twin these days? I have been trying to attract twin students and nothing seems to work. Our twin is a Seneca I that rents for $199/hour and MEI rate is $40 ($10 for the flight school and $30 for me). I worked out a deal with the Chief Pilot and Owner to offer a discount on the dual rate by 50% for a while in an attempt to get more twin students and got zero multi students.

I looked around in the Orlando area, where I did all my training and twin rates there are a lot higher. Here are the two that I found...
- Air Orlando, DA-42 Twin Star, $299/hour, MEI $65/hour
- Sunstate Aviation, Seneca I, $300/hour, MEI $64.50/hour

The ME checkride is not an issue, since we only have one DPE in the region and he's a fair guy. He did my ATP ME checkride and I've had a couple of students pass their checkrides with him in the twin.

I have 1900 TT, 1560 CFI, 312 ME. What are other MEIs doing to attract twin students? I already have a website, printed business cards and our flight school put up 3 billboards up last month, but we are just getting ab-initio guys. Our twin usually just sits on the ramp for days...

Any ideas or suggestions?
 
There just isn't a big market for twin tickets. I haven't endorsed one in years.

Average Joe doesn't want the added operating costs for a little extra speed.

And there has been a drop in the number of new student pilots over the past 2 years. No shinny jet jobs and no easy loans = nobody to pay for 100 hours of twin time.
 
It's going to be tough for a while. Look at the used twin sales market. The bottom completely fell out of it. With the current talk about the demise of 100LL and the resulting effect on high compression engines typically found on twins...the future just doesn't look good for now.

IMO, if you want to market twin time, your going to have to market nationwide (or further). The price you named is competitive. How is the plane equipped? Can it compete on that level? (glass has a huge marketing advantage) Could you offer packages that include lodging?

Good luck.
 
escapepilot said:
It's going to be tough for a while. Look at the used twin sales market. The bottom completely fell out of it. With the current talk about the demise of 100LL and the resulting effect on high compression engines typically found on twins...the future just doesn't look good for now.

IMO, if you want to market twin time, your going to have to market nationwide (or further). The price you named is competitive. How is the plane equipped? Can it compete on that level? (glass has a huge marketing advantage) Could you offer packages that include lodging?

Good luck.
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The plane is a 1972, with 2 VORs and a VFR GPS. No IFR GPS/NDB means the IFR/ATP checkride will only include ILS, LOC and VOR approaches. There is a Value Place about 5 miles away that offers weekly rates at $209 and I can pick/drop the student off if they don't do airport pickup/drop off. Not to mention, I have checklists, procedures guide and a PowerPoint on aircraft systems on my website. Time for more research I guess...
 
People like to travel for their twin training. They also like a flashy store front (web site) with twin training as a specialty.

I don't know why people seem to travel for twin training, I ended up doing so too. (long story) But that is a reason why the FBO has almost been wiped from the twin market. Hence, adding accommodation to your website is my suggestion.

Our AZTEC is 240/hr 38/instructor. That plane will put some hair on your chest.
 
This is the sort of delima I run through every time I try to convince myself to go get the MEI. Around these parts, there are a couple of twin I could instruct in. A couple of Duchess's that run 186/hr, or a Turbo Seminole that runs 199/hr (179/hr block). There are a few students, but that's because all the students are career oriented.

I've been able to pick up a student here, but I'm not really looking hard. Not sure if I could find multi students, if I got the MEI, but I know I can't without the MEI. Such a quagmire.
 
Douglas said:
People like to travel for their twin training. They also like a flashy store front (web site) with twin training as a specialty.

I don't know why people seem to travel for twin training, I ended up doing so too. (long story) But that is a reason why the FBO has almost been wiped from the twin market. Hence, adding accommodation to your website is my suggestion.

Our AZTEC is 240/hr 38/instructor. That plane will put some hair on your chest.
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Good point, I'll find some information on accommodation and add it to my site.

I did my Multi-Comm add-on and MEI in the Aztec, not to mention I have 250 hours as an MEI in them. The Seneca I is a baby airplane compared to the Aztec. :D

KSCessnaDriver said:
This is the sort of delima I run through every time I try to convince myself to go get the MEI. Around these parts, there are a couple of twin I could instruct in. A couple of Duchess's that run 186/hr, or a Turbo Seminole that runs 199/hr (179/hr block). There are a few students, but that's because all the students are career oriented.

I've been able to pick up a student here, but I'm not really looking hard. Not sure if I could find multi students, if I got the MEI, but I know I can't without the MEI. Such a quagmire.
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Dude, it's no more than 5 hours in the plane... get it done!
 
I get feelers every now and then about twin training, but nothing serious. The only people getting multi ratings are aspiring career pilots, and those are few and far between unless you're at a school that specializes in that.


I was looking back on my logbooks, and the last time I was in the right seat of a light twin was August 2008.
 
Gajre539 said:
I did my Multi-Comm add-on and MEI in the Aztec, not to mention I have 250 hours as an MEI in them. The Seneca I is a baby airplane compared to the Aztec.
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Agreed. The Aztec just felt more stable, and actually felt like it wanted to fly on 1 engine. Plus I felt the Aztec was more fun to fly.

Dude, it's no more than 5 hours in the plane... get it done!
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Yeah, its been nearly 9 months since I've flown an multi, so I'd say its going to take me closer to 10. In any case, I want to do it, but finding funding to do so is not easy.
 
The other problem might be how cheaply ATP is doing them these days. I start my multi-add on tomorrow with them and the 10-hour program (minus examiner cost) came to $2,500 (as a part of a special offer). That includes ground and some sim time as well.

I called a few local mom and pops but they each said that the multi would probably take a minimum of 15-hours of dual to complete. I'm only getting the multi because I have the opportunity to right seat with a couple of folks in their multi's - I have no plans of doing any single-pilot multi any time in the near future. I was afraid I might get into a situation where the MEI wanted to build more multi time and would bleed me in the process.

Good luck, though. Your rates are great - and it's great you've reduced the instructor rate.
 
Murdoughnut said:
The other problem might be how cheaply ATP is doing them these days. I start my multi-add on tomorrow with them and the 10-hour program (minus examiner cost) came to $2,500 (as a part of a special offer). That includes ground and some sim time as well.

I called a few local mom and pops but they each said that the multi would probably take a minimum of 15-hours of dual to complete. I'm only getting the multi because I have the opportunity to right seat with a couple of folks in their multi's - I have no plans of doing any single-pilot multi any time in the near future. I was afraid I might get into a situation where the MEI wanted to build more multi time and would bleed me in the process.

Good luck, though. Your rates are great - and it's great you've reduced the instructor rate.
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I've done Multi add-ons in 7-8 hours in one weekend. We have very little traffic in TLH which helps during training. I usually book the plane from 9am on Saturday to 9pm on Sunday with a checkride on Monday morning at 9.

I just checked ATP's site and their 10 hour program effective August will be $2,995. At my rate ($199 + 20 for 9 hours dual) it's $1861. Add 2 hours of ground for a total of $1900, excluding the plane for a one hour checkride ($199). I'm not sure if I can compete with ATP though since we only have one airplane... I'm going to try to talk to the owner to see if we can get the price for plane down by $10 or $20/hour.

Anyways, good luck with your ME training.
 
Gajre539 said:
I've done Multi add-ons in 7-8 hours in one weekend. We have very little traffic in TLH which helps during training. I usually book the plane from 9am on Saturday to 9pm on Sunday with a checkride on Monday morning at 9.

I just checked ATP's site and their 10 hour program effective August will be $2,995. At my rate ($199 + 20 for 9 hours dual) it's $1861. Add 2 hours of ground for a total of $1900, excluding the plane for a one hour checkride ($199). I'm not sure if I can compete with ATP though since we only have one airplane... I'm going to try to talk to the owner to see if we can get the price for plane down by $10 or $20/hour.

Anyways, good luck with your ME training.
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Thanks - I may contact you if I decide to pursue a commercial multi at some point.
 
Updated my site, offering a Multi-Engine Add-On Special for $1,991 . Hopefully it works... thanks for the ideas guys!
 
Traverse City is 1395 + examiners fee. So it comes out to like 1700 for the twin rating. Same price if you want to do the MEI with him as well. He also does seaplane ratings for $745 + examiners fee. Comes out to like 1100. Not a bad deal.
 
Inverted25 said:
Traverse City is 1395 + examiners fee. So it comes out to like 1700 for the twin rating. Same price if you want to do the MEI with him as well. He also does seaplane ratings for $745 + examiners fee. Comes out to like 1100. Not a bad deal.
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that's a pretty good deal especially for seaplane. sounds fun!
 
I'm looking for some twin time. I have a multi already but am looking to get my MEI and build some twin time. The kicker is I need some financing, it will probably be around September to October time period. I have another buddy also looking to build time with me... PM me if interested...
 
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