Trim failure out of DAL

Wardogg said:
Great job to the crew on this one. With a primary and secondary trim failure they may have actually had a jammed stabilizer.

*I'm not a fan of this youtube channel but my preferred one hasn't picked up on this one yet. I feel like this is a copycat channel.

View: https://youtu.be/n2p5-J3CBbE?si=uRhLKnBb-kf91rY5
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Unless the second guy is just a natural nervous Nelly, I guarantee you that the panic (discernible in the voices) started the moment they exceeded the speed at which the trim failed and then kept accelerating in the velocity dimension. Fly the fail speed: Works good. Lasts a long time.
Good to know, though, that despite the panic, we proud 'Muricans are at least more capable than the MCAS smoking holes.
 
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Toobdrvr said:
I’ve experienced a pitch trim failure on takeoff. No mechanical backup (Metro). Aircraft rotated itself 10kt early. Continued pitching up as airspeed increased. Ended up with both arms locked out, pushing as hard as I could. Could only take my right hand off for a second to try to reduce power for airspeed. Probably sounded a little stressed calling SLC ATC for an immediate emergency return for landing. On downwind, as my arms began to shake, I realized that if I took my hands off the controls, I’m dead for sure. Somehow, I managed to bring it around and landed, pushing forward about 50% max on touchdown. Although it was about 0600 in January in SLC, when I cleared the runway, I realized my shirt was soaked…Soo…

Went MUCH better the second time this happened!!!
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Speaking of Metros, look at all thsee blades today:

IMG_9550.jpeg
 
DE727UPS said:
Speaking of Key Lime....

krdo.com

Former pilots raise several safety concerns with an airline that serves southern Colorado | KRDO

DENVER, Colo. (KRDO) - Five former pilots of a small airline based in Denver detail what they consider major safety concerns with aircraft that fly passengers every day in southern Colorado. The pilots told 13 Investigates they've experienced problems with landing gear, GPS, or the autopilot...
krdo.com krdo.com
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Maybe they blew the maintenance budget on 5 blade props?
 
T/O w/FSII said:
A primary and secondary failure after takeoff in TO configuration for this type requires enough control column force that it usually breaks the simulator, it requires you to pass the controls back and forth after you get tired, and a technique taught at school is to ram your leg in front of the yoke to help the pressure.

For those that think it ain’t nothing.
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I always hated how we never bothered to demonstrate a jammed stabilizer approach and landing in simulator on Barbie’s Nightmare Jet. Actually the last time I saw a jammed stabilizer during training and took it to a landing, now that I think about it, was when it was called American Eagle and I was on the 145. Characteristic understatements about “more control force may be required” seems to undersell it, not to mention the fact that most autopilots(?) won’t engage without at least one operative stab trim channel.

Wildly out-of-trim conditions will at a minimum surprise you and wear you out. And the way we teach them, if we do at all, you know the malfunction is coming, the odds are you aren’t distracted with (something else) like you are in line operations, and they almost always resolve; anecdotally it was rare to take any of them to a landing in the RJ initials because there just wasn’t time because reasons.

PGT said:
I laughed at Citation and "QRH", no such thing. Those coming from a 121 background laugh at the emergency checklist and how its structured.
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My King Air initial was something like “holy (bleep), you guys LIVE like this and call THIS a checklist?”

And that was for normal procedures.

Fixtur said:
Airplanes break! Story at 11.
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Fear of retaliation does not indicate a just culture, full stop.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I always hated how we never bothered to demonstrate a jammed stabilizer approach and landing in simulator on Barbie’s Nightmare Jet. Actually the last time I saw a jammed stabilizer during training and took it to a landing, now that I think about it, was when it was called American Eagle and I was on the 145. Characteristic understatements about “more control force may be required” seems to undersell it, not to mention the fact that most autopilots(?) won’t engage without at least one operative stab trim channel.

Wildly out-of-trim conditions will at a minimum surprise you and wear you out. And the way we teach them, if we do at all, you know the malfunction is coming, the odds are you aren’t distracted with (something else) like you are in line operations, and they almost always resolve; anecdotally it was rare to take any of them to a landing in the RJ initials because there just wasn’t time because reasons.
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Be careful, the powers that be at the three letter organizations will get you. No, not the government ones. I'm talking about Eff Ess Eye, and See Eigh Ee.

Apparently they aren't a fan of public humiliations of their training. I recently went back for a 4 day recurrent. $22k and I was physically inside the building for a grand total of 26 hours. Oh, and the 2 sim sessions? A precheck and a checkride. And the precheck was just the checkride so you "had seen it" before going into the check. If CC wants a valid complaint about the corporate world, this is where he should direct his angst.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I always hated how we never bothered to demonstrate a jammed stabilizer approach and landing in simulator on Barbie’s Nightmare Jet. Actually the last time I saw a jammed stabilizer during training and took it to a landing, now that I think about it, was when it was called American Eagle and I was on the 145. Characteristic understatements about “more control force may be required” seems to undersell it, not to mention the fact that most autopilots(?) won’t engage without at least one operative stab trim channel.

Wildly out-of-trim conditions will at a minimum surprise you and wear you out. And the way we teach them, if we do at all, you know the malfunction is coming, the odds are you aren’t distracted with (something else) like you are in line operations, and they almost always resolve; anecdotally it was rare to take any of them to a landing in the RJ initials because there just wasn’t time because reasons.
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Come to ATL next week. You can watch me and my sim partner bumble our way through some stabilizer runways in the old clunker.
 
Fixtur said:
Airplanes break! Story at 11.
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This was the part of the story I wanted to highlight:

"The pilots hired Swan (the attorney) after Key Lime Air sued them for quitting before their two-year commitment.

In the event they leave before two years of service, the agreements they signed require them to pay $25,000 to $35,000 in exchange for the training they received when hired." I've some of the regionals with "special deals" are suing those who didn't stick around long enough. Training contracts are still out there.
 
DE727UPS said:
In the event they leave before two years of service, the agreements they signed require them to pay $25,000 to $35,000 in exchange for the training they received when hired." I've some of the regionals with "special deals" are suing those who didn't stick around long enough. Training contracts are still out there.
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I enjoy jurisdictions that bar such things. California is one such.

There’s merits to arguments about the rightness of these deals, sure, whether employers should be allowed to collect or not, but I always hate seeing pilots making the argument that these agreements are *good* (and I have seen it).
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Actually the last time I saw a jammed stabilizer during training and took it to a landing, now that I think about it, was when it was called American Eagle and I was on the 145. Characteristic understatements about “more control force may be required” seems to undersell it, not to mention the fact that most autopilots(?) won’t engage without at least one operative stab trim channel.
Click to expand...
When I got my type rating in the Lear 45 and the DA-EASy we had to demonstrate these. The funny part was being warned in the Lear not to put my feet in the instrument panel for leverage which is funny since I’m 6’1” and back then 195lbs and it would have been physically impossible for me to do. But the warning came because apparently a dwarf pilot managed to pull that off and cracked the panels while demonstrating a jammed stab landing. They would jam the stab at cruise which was almost full nose down and for landing you need the opposite, Bombardier even added a mechanism to use to add pulling force to the elevator to help since the forces get so high.

And yeah the manufacturer/FSI/CAE checklists are poopy steaming hot garbage compared to what we have in 121.
 
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