Touch and goes at LSZH. UAL.

[MikeD]

Kind of tight here. Looks like a go around that turned into a touch and go, probably from being slow at the moment. I’d think that serious deck angle on the ground, even just below Ref, should’ve gotten them airborne again, but they ended up with a good few seconds of takeoff roll and a rotation that looks like inside the 1 board and almost to the overrun. Good thing is they didn’t drag the tail trying to force it into the air, and they stuck with the go around decision on that fairly short runway. Spicy, for sure.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3_jsQ_EwXZw&pp=ygURdW5pdGVkIDc2NyB6dXJpY2g%3D&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3ywnKQpVI7NWSzExeZ-bfYYI_2iC8ufgFm-s-InIDP96zStQ6oZJYW6HY_aem_AdrZz3au1SqSkl80guIQ-zdRuTNoFJGLhIw8w2ZZQPw7WzNSv5qil3Zg2z1DYeOP0f3bOKPf7CnpDfb8LTPYsAg0

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It’s “Oh United LSZH”


Which almost passes as Roman Numerals…

 

[Baronman]

Way to make a boring landing look interesting! Wtf is going on?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The increasing deck angle is bad for a tail strike, but I give credit to the guy for not attempting to slam the nose down after any of those touchdowns.

 

[MikeD]

Way to make a boring landing look interesting! Wtf is going on?

The bounce, oddly no spoilers (didn’t come to idle? Not armed? Planned or unplanned?), wet runway didn’t help, I’d bet asymmetric spool up of the engines too on the go, with the yaw seen. Slow, so had to catch up to Vr with the little runway remaining…..no spoilers at least one less thing to stow. Routine touch and go for the rest it looks like.

 

[Soku39]

The bounce, oddly no spoilers (didn’t come to idle? Not armed? Planned or unplanned?), wet runway didn’t help, I’d bet asymmetric spool up of the engines too on the go, with the yaw seen. Slow, so had to catch up to Vr with the little runway remaining…..no spoilers at least one less thing to stow. Routine touch and go for the rest it looks like.

Touch and go isn't routine in 121 though. This video is yikes, I would love to see how close they were to brick last without the telephoto lens, maybe it wasn't as dramatic as it looks.

 

[MikeD]

Touch and go isn't routine in 121 though. This video is yikes, I would love to see how close they were to brick last without the telephoto lens, maybe it wasn't as dramatic as it looks.

They appear to be inside the 1 board and almost to the overrun. If they hadn’t gotten airborne and had entered the EMAS bed at that speed….ooh boy!

 

[Soku39]

They appear to be inside the 1 board and almost to the overrun. If they hadn’t gotten airborne and had entered the EMAS bed at that speed….ooh boy!

That would've been... something, I wonder how good the EEC/FADEC is on an old 767 to get them spooled back up. That is some significant pucker factor, glad they got it to rotate again.

 

[Skåning]

This gives me Emirates accident vibes. A go around where they forgot to hit TOGA or move the thrust levers up. Floundering along and almost end up on the 5 o'clock nachricht (news)

 

[ChasenSFO]

Touch and go isn't routine in 121 though. This video is yikes, I would love to see how close they were to brick last without the telephoto lens, maybe it wasn't as dramatic as it looks.

Nope, they were pretty close to the end I think lol. Not taking the approach lights to Doha close, but not much of an exaggeration with the lens if you look closely.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

This gives me Emirates accident vibes. A go around where they forgot to hit TOGA or move the thrust levers up. Floundering along and almost end up on the 5 o'clock nachricht (news)

They did hit TOGA but it was done right as the main wheels contacted the runway, WOW input received. Now, apparently, the power won’t come up on its own. They thought it would. They rotated, saw a positive rate, selected gear up, and rapidly burned whatever kinetic energy they had and the rest is history. Luckily all made it out, but 1 firefighter died when the wing blew up.

 

[luke3]

Bizarre. Everything looks like a perfectly normal landing, in the touchdown zone, not even particularly hard. But then it just goes off the rails. There's just a little initial skip that would have easily settled still within the touchdown zone by just holding the pitch. It's hard to tell since you can't see the elevators from this angle, but it almost looks like the PF yanked the yoke back expecting the nose to drop like on a 757 and it briefly became airborne again, setting off the ensuing roller coaster ride. The 767 has a nose up pitching moment at spoiler deployment. As someone that flies 90% 757, every time I get into a 767 I'm talking to myself on short final: "don't pull back after touchdown".

 

[Inverted]

Wow this is very odd. Approach and initial touchdown looked fine. I was literally waiting for it to go sideways in ground effect or something but it never did. Seems like the PF kept pulling the yoke back just a they were touching down which kept the airplane just shy of dumping the lift. It really seems like they got it settled, realized they were gonna go off, and initiated a go-around. That was a long roll before rotation.

 

[bLizZuE]

Bizarre. Everything looks like a perfectly normal landing, in the touchdown zone, not even particularly hard. But then it just goes off the rails. There's just a little initial skip that would have easily settled still within the touchdown zone by just holding the pitch. It's hard to tell since you can't see the elevators from this angle, but it almost looks like the PF yanked the yoke back expecting the nose to drop like on a 757 and it briefly became airborne again, setting off the ensuing roller coaster ride. The 767 has a nose up pitching moment at spoiler deployment. As someone that flies 90% 757, every time I get into a 767 I'm talking to myself on short final: "don't pull back after touchdown".

I think the first touchdown had a little bounce and the spoilers did not deploy. If the spoilers were not armed I don’t think the autobrakes would come on. I think these two things made the following bounces and PIO a bit wonky.

The “go-around” was a bit tough to watch.

 

[Baronman]

The first touchdown sure looks sufficient to deploy the spoilers....but that doesn't appear to happen. Not knowing 767 spoiler logic, I can't really guess what's going on....Non-armed spoilers? Too much thrust in with weight on wheels? No reverser deployed? Would love to know what happened.

 

[bLizZuE]

The first touchdown sure looks sufficient to deploy the spoilers....but that doesn't appear to happen. Not knowing 767 spoiler logic, I can't really guess what's going on....Non-armed spoilers? Too much thrust in with weight on wheels? No reverser deployed? Would love to know what happened.

If power isn’t at idle or the spoiler is not in the armed detent, they won’t deploy. Spoiler arming is a deferrable item which requires manually deploying them with the handle.

 

[MikeD]

lucky to have gotten back airborne just before the overrun. EMAS wouldce ripped the landing gear mounts at that speed with the engines digging in thereafter and potentially getting torn off, and not have contained the jet from overrunning, part and parcel from the injuries that would’ve been sustained. Wonder what the pax were thinking.

 

[Doug Masters]

BASELESS SPECULATION INCOMING

There is a pervasive theory at my airline (not the one posted) that pulling the power on a 767 any higher than 3 inches off the runway will result in a hard & calamitous touchdown that will open all of the overhead bins. A technique I see used alot is to just be hitting the idle stop as the wheels touchdown. We are also not supposed to deploy the speedbrakes until the nosewheel is down if autospoilers do not work. I could see a scenario where the PF does not get the power all of the way out and the speedbrakes stay stowed, and the little bit of power causes it not to settle and skip along the runway. The PM wont deploy them until the nose wheel is down which isn't going to happen for a while. Then if you initiate a go around after this, especially with PW engines, it takes forever for them to spool up. Could get really spicy on a short runway.

My hill that I will die on is that you can get consistent smoothish landings if you start pulling the power at 20-25 feet and being idle at 5-10 in the 767. I was never a fan of how long some people leave power in on landings when compared to the 757.

 

[luke3]

BASELESS SPECULATION INCOMING

There is a pervasive theory at my airline (not the one posted) that pulling the power on a 767 any higher than 3 inches off the runway will result in a hard & calamitous touchdown that will open all of the overhead bins.

My hill that I will die on is that you can get consistent smoothish landings if you start pulling the power at 20-25 feet and being idle at 5-10 in the 767. I was never a fan of how long some people leave power in on landings when compared to the 757.

We must work at the same place because I've met a couple of them myself. I agree, as long as you bring them back smoothly instead of just wiping the power, 20ft works out really well. If anything I found it much more sensitive to side load. You can be set up for a greaser but of you're just a bit off on longitudinal alignment it shakes the hell out of the airplane as the trucks settle, ruining your nice landing.

 

[phill1174]

Reminds me of the SWA video in RDU a month or two ago. I had something similar happen in a 76 a few weeks ago. Wasn’t close to this though. I also seen it happen on the 75 before. It’s interesting because usually bounced landings are associated with touching down at a high descent rate. Neither of which I seen was the case.