Too old to start pilot career? Need advice!

Autothrust Blue said:
Lemme see, median income down, cost of living up, yes, indeed, I can certify this as a true statement, statistically.
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How far do you want to go? Generally, in my lifetime, median household income has roughly tracked the overall curve of inflation. That doesn't tell us much, because you're trying to extrapolate incredibly complex results from artificially simple data.

What you want is to track the specific amount of money various jobs and roles pay over the years, normalized to an "ideal" location, divided into different categories with overall trend-lines per category and with the outliers pruned to account for shifts in the market. Then those data need to be correlated with other data to remove the myriad confounding factors incurred. The result isn't a simple line graph, nor a simple number.

There is no simple answer to a complex problem.

"Median household income" entirely fails to account for any of the emergent confounding factors that have come to shape the landscape, and there is no simple trend picture possible.

However, I can remember what various jobs paid twenty years ago, fifteen years ago, ten years ago, and how much I paid for milk/cereal/meat/vegetables/groceries/gas at the extremes, and my subconscious mind can tell me, with a surprising degree of reliability, that stuff costs more now, that some jobs pay more than they used to, that some jobs pay less than they used to, and that pilots are pretty much screwed either way.

Truthiness. It's what's for dinner.

~Fox
 
dasleben said:
I am a diehard Californian, but I live here with 38 million of my closest friends. For those keeping score at home, that's roughly 12% of the total US population, and it's also the most populous state in the country by a wide margin. Based on what I know about you, you live and work in Alaska, which is the 47th least populated state in the US, and has roughly 2% of the total population of California alone. While $40k-$50k/year may be a perfectly acceptable where you live, it's not acceptable for the tens of millions more who live in CA, NY, and other higher cost-of-living states. Pay levels must be based on areas where most people actually live, not cheaper areas where fewer people live. Most importantly, it should never be assumed that people will simply uproot themselves to go live in, say, Tulsa, just to make $40k/year into an acceptable income level.

And yes, I pay a lot each month for student loan repayment, though in 2014, it's not an unheard of amount. In fact, for those coming out of school now, college tuition is much higher, and $40k-$50k/year simply will not be enough to repay those loans.

We're only worth what we negotiate, and we simply don't need pilots defending low pilot pay. It's never in your best interest.
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Meh. Whatever works for you man. I notice that you're using some very flexible numbers in your posts. First it was 50-60k, now it's 40k. Big difference between 40k and 60k, even bigger if the 60k has a halfway decent benefits package attached to it. I know what it's like to live on median income in a high cost of living area and it's worked out pretty well. Different lifestyle and I don't have student loans (which is no credit of my own I'll freely admit).
 
Roger Roger said:
Meh. Whatever works for you man. I notice that you're using some very flexible numbers in your posts. First it was 50-60k, now it's 40k. Big difference between 40k and 60k, even bigger if the 60k has a halfway decent benefits package attached to it. I know what it's like to live on median income in a high cost of living area and it's worked out pretty well. Different lifestyle and I don't have student loans (which is no credit of my own I'll freely admit).
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Don't sidestep. You know very well that I've been concentrating on the 40k-50k range, which is a figure I didn't pull out of thin air. In this thread and others, that's the most-often quoted range when people talk about how RJ FO pay isn't bad.

Sounds harsh, but if you're happy with that range for an airline pilot, please steer clear of 121.
 
dasleben said:
Don't sidestep. You know very well that I've been concentrating on the 40k-50k range, which is a figure I didn't pull out of thin air. In this thread and others, that's the most-often quoted range when people talk about how RJ FO pay isn't bad.

Sounds harsh, but if you're happy with that range for an airline pilot, please steer clear of 121.
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I don't think I said I was "happy" with it. I was just taking issue with the statement that it's impossible to live on it anywhere in the country without a sugar momma, which is, as I said, completely untrue.
 
Saying that the process is doable and the wages can be made to work, does not equate to defending the pay. I don't know why that leap was made. My only argument here is that IF you are set on aviation, you CAN make it work for you, IF you don't bury yourself in debt and maintaining a lifestyle above the essentials. Some are willing to make the sacrifices. I am, and I see an upside to this vs my other skills. I live in a cheap area, house is paid for, no debt whatsoever, so it works for me. It wasn't working 4-5 years ago and I had to leave aviation for a while.
 
Roger Roger said:
I don't think I said I was "happy" with it. I was just taking issue with the statement that it's impossible to live on it anywhere in the country without a sugar momma, which is, as I said, completely untrue.
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I never made any such claim.
 
Crop Duster said:
No kidding! Where could one possibly live on that, unless perhaps you're a DINK with a high income spouse?!? In any case, it's a freaking insult. Unfortunately, US aviation is a race to the bottom. Never thought I'd advocate for demanding an advanced degree as a prerequisite for professional piloting, but between the costs and hassles of preparation on the one hand and the rednecky cowtowing-to-the-boss-man-while-pretending-to-be-a-rugged-free-market-individualist on the other, I'm not sure what's left to protect us from getting trampled under the feet of those rushing to the head of the bread line.
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This is probably the post you are referring to.
 
Acrofox said:
How far do you want to go? Generally, in my lifetime, median household income has roughly tracked the overall curve of inflation. That doesn't tell us much, because you're trying to extrapolate incredibly complex results from artificially simple data.

What you want is to track the specific amount of money various jobs and roles pay over the years, normalized to an "ideal" location, divided into different categories with overall trend-lines per category and with the outliers pruned to account for shifts in the market. Then those data need to be correlated with other data to remove the myriad confounding factors incurred. The result isn't a simple line graph, nor a simple number.

There is no simple answer to a complex problem.

"Median household income" entirely fails to account for any of the emergent confounding factors that have come to shape the landscape, and there is no simple trend picture possible.

However, I can remember what various jobs paid twenty years ago, fifteen years ago, ten years ago, and how much I paid for milk/cereal/meat/vegetables/groceries/gas at the extremes, and my subconscious mind can tell me, with a surprising degree of reliability, that stuff costs more now, that some jobs pay more than they used to, that some jobs pay less than they used to, and that pilots are pretty much screwed either way.

Truthiness. It's what's for dinner.

~Fox
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@Derg oughta have this etched into the stone pavers at the iron gates in front of the JC Headquarters Compound.

Seriously. I realize you're describing fundamental issues of economics, but you're really talking about applying reason to complex problems. And this is something that applies to far, far more than just pilot pay.
 
Roger Roger said:
And I didn't say you did. If you go back to my first post in this thread it was in reply to crop dusters post (referenced below). I'm not even sure how you got pulled into it.
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Sorry for the late reply, but I got pulled into it because it raises my blood pressure when I see pilots working under 10+ year old contracts say that things are fine. Really, they're not, and passion for aviation should never be used as something that takes the place of pay or QOL. Never, ever settle (not saying that to you in particular, but in general).

I'm glad people are happy; I'm reasonably happy too, but if you ask me about my company's CBA, I'll talk for an hour on things we could improve on, and what I'd like to see from the NC in 2016. I never talk about how getting by is just fine and dandy, or how it's not about the money. It's always about the money and QOL, especially at a job where you get about 10 minutes of actual, hands-on flying experience each month. Really, if you ask me, it's only about the money and QOL at this point.
 
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