Too old to start pilot career? Need advice!

I don't disagree. But it's not all doom and gloom out there, particularly if you're motivated and have a good personality. There are plenty of low achievers out there to bring down the curve. If you're a slacker, this can be a tough industry I'm sure.
 
I don't disagree. But it's not all doom and gloom out there, particularly if you're motivated and have a good personality. There are plenty of low achievers out there to bring down the curve. If you're a slacker, this can be a tough industry I'm sure.
Of course it's not all doom and gloom, but it's not all fairies and pixie dust either, even if you're a good dude. :) Gotta prepare for both.
 
But when Sullenberger says, "I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps" and in the same hearing, his first officer said he was working a second job to maintain a middle class lifestyle, you cannot dismiss their comments as ramblings from someone who's not in the industry.
I knew precisely what I was signing up for; my Dad didn't pressure me either way to do this for a living, but once I decided I wanted to do it, he was very, very supportive.

You can say "XXXX will pay you $60k/year to fly a 172," but unless you have a job offer at XXXX, it doesn't mean anything. Most people will end up taking the $15k/year instructing job; the numbers don't lie, and it may very well be you. People need to prepare for the strong possibility that the $60k/year 172 job won't be available when you're building time.
I know of two instructor jobs that will pay that much to fly a 172; they're both Chief and Assistant Chief Instructor positions.
When I got hired to fly RJs at my former [super] regional airline, I was told in the interview that I'd be a captain in 18 months, and that it'd be the second to last interview of my career.
SUREly, you cannot be serious. ;)
 
I'm not rationalizing crap.

I am simply stating the logic I applied in deciding, this is not a career path I want to go down. Now, maybe things have changed. Maybe you don't have to go do a $15K a year instructor job for a year or two until you get to the magic 1500 hours.

Yes, I am providing the original poster with a worst case scenario. As I said, plan for the worst, hope for the best.

You can dismiss me as full of crap because I'm not in the industry, and you know what, that's fair.

But when Sullenberger says, "I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps" and in the same hearing, his first officer said he was working a second job to maintain a middle class lifestyle, you cannot dismiss their comments as ramblings from someone who's not in the industry.

And they were working for a major. Do they not know what they're talking about?
I still don't see why it's necessary in now 15 posts, to keep repeating the same negative things. Maybe I am missing your point in continuing to do this, but it's getting to be a bit much by now. I can only assume you mean well, but it really isn't coming off that way any longer. I answered your quote from Sully (that he made clear back in 2009 while speaking to congress about the state of pax carriers) that you posted twice now and you ignored what I said about the many other types of flying that is available besides flying pax around at the majors. The OP has stated that her husband isn't interested in that route anyways. She even asked about freight, crop and other types of flying clear back last Friday and again today.

If my son had had the attitude/mind set that you do and I had told him what you keep repeating here, he'd never would have become a Captain at FedEx. At the time, he was only one of three in his class who was not a Vet. He worked his ass off, moved 4 times, instructed, flew freight, flew charter, did all sorts of jobs, made the connections and paid his dues to get there. He never once considered giving up or thought that he wouldn't land on his feet in the future. He stayed focused, motivated, committed and never whined. The only thing I did was advise him to go the freight route for a decent player because of what he might encounter on the pax side of life at a major and it seemed more secure to me.

As for Skiles, he took a leave that he has been on for several years, took a paid job two and a half years ago with EAA and travels around doing speaking engagements, organizing events, works with the Young Eagles (in fact Sully also works with the Young Eagles) and does some other paid public speaking as well. (I believe that Sully is 62 or 63 now and Skiles is 54) Sully has written a couple of books, also gets paid for speaking engagements and started a consulting firm. Neither one of them however as far as I have read/heard regrets their decisions to become a pilot and I have never heard of either of them discouraging others to pursue other types of flying either. Skiles even owns a Waco that he flies. Neither one of their lifestyles has changed for the worse that I am aware of, so I don't think they are suffering too much.

When you get older (as both of them are) some pilots decide to leave their jobs after they feel they have put in enough time, things are going wanky at their carrier, they find they have put up with enough, and for a variety of other reasons. I was one of them. But I knew I still wanted to fly, make decent money and thus far, I have managed to do just that. But many of them find other careers in other types of aviation and or other types of flying and even those who leave in their 60's after a long career at the same carrier, often do the same and not because of financial issues. They still want to fly and work.

Crap has happened at many carriers, (and this btw, is nothing new- there have been bankruptcies, furloughs, crap ass management, strikes, mergers, carriers going under, etc. for decades) but you either ride the wave, adjust or move on to something else. Many careers are like that, in truth, not just aviation. There are ups and downs in most careers. Not much in life or in work is certain to begin with. So what? Nothing in life is easy, and again I have to ask, so what? There are two sorts of folks....those who focus on the negative, can't get over their regrets, give up on their dreams and prepare for the worst. Then there are those who focus on finding the good, staying positive, let the regrets go and expect the best. I guess I'd rather be in the last category.
 
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I still don't see why it's necessary in now 15 posts, to keep repeating the same negative things. Maybe I am missing your point in continuing to do this, but it's getting to be a bit much by now. I can only assume you mean well, but it really isn't coming off that way any longer. I answered your quote from Sully (that he made clear back in 2009 while speaking to congress about the state of pax carriers) that you posted twice now and you ignored what I said about the many other types of flying that is available besides flying pax around at the majors. The OP has stated that her husband isn't interested in that route anyways. She even asked about freight, crop and other types of flying clear back last Friday and again today.

If my son had had the attitude/mind set that you do and I had told him what you keep repeating here, he'd never would have become a Captain at FedEx. At the time, he was only one of three in his class who was not a Vet. He worked his ass off, moved 4 times, instructed, flew freight, flew charter, did all sorts of jobs, made the connections and paid his dues to get there. He never once considered giving up or thought that he wouldn't land on his feet in the future. He stayed focused, committed and never whined. The only thing I did was advise him to go the freight route for a decent player because of what he might encounter on the pax side of life at a major and it seemed more secure to me.

As for Skiles, he took a leave that he has been on for several years, took a paid job two and a half years ago with EAA and travels around doing speaking engagements, organizing events, works with the Young Eagles (in fact Sully also works with the Young Eagles) and does some other paid public speaking as well. (I believe that Sully is 62 or 63 now and Skiles is 54) Sully has written a couple of books, also gets paid for speaking engagements and started a consulting firm. Neither one of them however as far as I have read/heard regrets their decisions to become a pilot and I have never heard of either of them discouraging others to pursue other types of flying either. Skiles even owns a Waco that he flies. Neither one of their lifestyles has changed for the worse that I am aware of, so I don't think they are suffering too much.

When you get older (as both of them are) some pilots decide to leave their jobs after they feel they have put in enough time, things are going wanky at their carrier, they find they have put up with enough, and for a variety of other reasons. I was one of them. But I knew I still wanted to fly, make decent money and thus far, I have managed to do just that. But many of them find other careers in other types of aviation and or other types of flying and even those who leave in their 60's after a long career at the same carrier, often do the same and not because of financial issues. They still want to fly and work.

Crap has happened at many carriers, (and this btw, is nothing new- there have been bankruptcies, furloughs, crap ass management, strikes, mergers, carriers going under, etc. for decades) but you either ride the wave, adjust or move on to something else. Many careers are like that, in truth, not just aviation. There are ups and downs in most careers. Not much in life or in work is certain to begin with. So what? Nothing in life is easy, and again I have to ask, so what? There are two sorts of folks....those who focus on the negative, can't get over their regrets, give up on their dreams and prepare for the worst. Then there are those who focus on finding the good, staying positive, let the regrets go and expect the best. I guess I'd rather be in the last category.
Ditto!
 
How much is rent?
$1200 for a nice 3/2 condo. Nothing fancy but totally livable. $1200 is on the low side, we got a good deal. Most 3/2's here go for $1500 and up, way up. I know that's pretty steep for a lot of the country but I'm from Seattle and that's in line with most decent areas inside the city.
 
It isn't quite as doom and gloom as @tonyw makes it out to be. I don't fly for an airline, but do still instruct somewhat actively, fly towplanes, and other random things.

You can still become a CFI for under $30k, it just might not be as fast, or in California. Owning an airplane, flying gliders, joining a club, having CFI friends- 25k or less is still possible if you are smart about it.

Given the demographics of most legacies, getting a job now is not hard. And you can make a living as a CFI. It is what I plan to do when I retire, I have to turn away students now as it is.

In my case, it is hard to walk away from the pay I make now (legacy-captian ballpark). If my employment situation were to change, I would strongly consider an airline gig.

There are CFIs charging $100/hour (in expensive places like SFO), a good living can be had
 
It isn't quite as doom and gloom as @tonyw makes it out to be. I don't fly for an airline, but do still instruct somewhat actively, fly towplanes, and other random things.

You can still become a CFI for under $30k, it just might not be as fast, or in California. Owning an airplane, flying gliders, joining a club, having CFI friends- 25k or less is still possible if you are smart about it.

Given the demographics of most legacies, getting a job now is not hard. And you can make a living as a CFI. It is what I plan to do when I retire, I have to turn away students now as it is.

In my case, it is hard to walk away from the pay I make now (legacy-captian ballpark). If my employment situation were to change, I would strongly consider an airline gig.

There are CFIs charging $100/hour (in expensive places like SFO), a good living can be had
I still don't see how he's being doom and gloom. His posts in this thread have been rather accurate, at least for me and most of my peer group. Kudos to someone for taking the time to do the math and deciding to steer clear. I would too if I were in his shoes.

I wonder if I can pull up some numbers for you guys... I don't mind sharing. Stand by to standby.
 
So unlimited pricing power isn't a ripoff?

I bet TurboTax would love to be the exclusive filing partner of the IRS!

And on that note, as many federal agencies now require online access, universal broadband is becoming a more reasonable thing to demand. I actually would not be surprised if a silicon valley consortium tried to do it on their own... (the threat of google/facebook/Microsoft/oracle deciding it was in their interest would quickly change things)
 
I still don't see how he's being doom and gloom. His posts in this thread have been rather accurate, at least for me and most of my peer group. Kudos to someone for taking the time to do the math and deciding to steer clear. I would too if I were in his shoes.

I mostly steered clear too, but it isn't quite as bad as he makes it sound. If I had to make my living tomorrow, it would still be better than most jobs.
 
I mostly steered clear too, but it isn't quite as bad as he makes it sound. If I had to make my living tomorrow, it would still be better than most jobs.
I want to be very clear that it can absolutely be just as bad as he's described. Anyone hired into the regionals in the 2007-2008 timeframe knows exactly what I'm talking about. The market has definitely gotten better, but we all know how cyclical it is.

I may be shouted down as a doom and gloomer here, but many of us can nod our heads at those figures he's described. Someone getting in now needs to know that it's entirely possible they'll time it wrong, and well, there's not much you can do at the bottom of a seniority list, even if you're the nicest, most optimistic, hardest-working pilot at the company. A bad downswing in the market can and will spit you back onto the street.

Guys/gals need to do their homework!
 
And I know I've said this before, but...

Pilots need to stop talking about $40k-$50k/year as if it's a good thing!

No kidding! Where could one possibly live on that, unless perhaps you're a DINK with a high income spouse?!? In any case, it's a freaking insult. Unfortunately, US aviation is a race to the bottom. Never thought I'd advocate for demanding an advanced degree as a prerequisite for professional piloting, but between the costs and hassles of preparation on the one hand and the rednecky cowtowing-to-the-boss-man-while-pretending-to-be-a-rugged-free-market-individualist on the other, I'm not sure what's left to protect us from getting trampled under the feet of those rushing to the head of the bread line.
 
I still don't see how he's being doom and gloom. His posts in this thread have been rather accurate, at least for me and most of my peer group. Kudos to someone for taking the time to do the math and deciding to steer clear. I would too if I were in his shoes.

I wonder if I can pull up some numbers for you guys... I don't mind sharing. Stand by to standby.


I think he is the only one that knows how to do math.
 
I was a dumb ass trucker with zero college, and I think this career has a pretty good upside. I unlike most others here, have very low expenses. Not because my spouse makes jack squat but because I never borrow money, I bought some real estate in Phoenix, and sold it at the top of the market in 2005. I paid for my flight training with $100 dollar bills, and then turned that podunk FBO into a reasonably decent place to get your training for a good price. When the time came I went to a regional and that was nice but then the school offered me $40K salary to return, $40K and live at home vs $17K and be gone. That was an easy decision, and it was great for the 15 months it lasted. The economy tanked and I was out of flying for 4 full years, back driving trucks and hating every minute. So now I'm back in aviation. Making $25-30ish first year, and happy to be back. It's not about money to me, because my needs are modest, and my sanity has value.

That being said, its not for everybody and I've said that already. I know that I will always take care of my family first and hopefully I can do that flying something with wings. If not, I go do the other things I know how to do, which is drive trucks, manage restaurants, etc.
 
Uh, wut? 40-50k is pretty livable in most of the country.

Yep, and more than most individuals in the USA earn. The median HOUSEHOLD income in 2008-2012 was $53,000.

Before I get flamed, I'm not defending the low end pay, or suggesting the we shouldn't be paid more. BUT, a regional captain earning $70,000 - $80,000 a year is doing well in comparison to the average guy earning a paycheck.
 
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