Too high for my comfort level...

mikecweb said:
Should it bother me that they are bugged for .76 and it looks like they can't maintain even .70
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Nah, just bug a speed you’ll never hit. That way auto-throttles stay at max where they belong instead of moving all over the place anytime the speed changes a few knots.

It’s for passenger comfort or something.


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SteveC said:
Equipment capabilities and context matters. You're talking about an aircraft whose certified ceiling was FL410 and a 121 line crew. The picture above is a flight flown by factory pilots, in a model of aircraft that I routinely fly between FL400 and FL 450.
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That first pic at FL510 looks like the back side of the power curve with how slow they are. Yes? No?
 
PositionAndHold said:
Our flight? Was it FL490? We usually did 430-450. Occasionally we’d get a block and step climb higher. But yes, we also took the opportunity to practice an emer decent since we were just west of Catalina trying to make LGB and the controllers said go for it. We made it. I thought it was a front fan vibration issue?? That could’ve been another time though.

I’ve also been to 510 twice in a 45. SoCal to TUS. Empty. All the stock removed. VFR both ways and the right amount of fuel. Super light. Both on 02. It can easily be done safely. It definitely wasn’t a “let’s 410 it brah”. It was holding .76/.77 no problem. We did it in blocks and stepped climbed as not to get slow. The 45/75 series is a very capable airframe. Hopefully It will be supported in the future. Even if it’s not Bombardeir. Still one of my favorites after 3k’ish hours in it. View attachment 62607
Edit to add: As you can see in the pic above as opposed to the OP pic. The OP pic was plowing through the air nose up and and the low speed tape is visible. The above pic is accelerating and no low speed tape. Technique.
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Yep, that was it. I remember 49000 specifically because you had commented that when you would fly to South America you'd spend time up there and the issue would arise, and it was the highest I'd ever been (I think there was either an Airshow monitor or a speed/altitude display mounted on the fwd cabin bulkhead, but my memory is a bit fuzzy about that detail.).
I also don't remember if we ever fixed it, I do remember coming back to rebalance the fans though so maybe that was it (although for some reason the 731-20AR engines liked to vibrate so that could've been a seperate issue).
 
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SteveC said:
As in "drag is higher than available power and they’ll continue slowing"?

I really don’t know for sure, but I doubt it.
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Take a look at AOA ref in the OP picture.

Maybe not back side, but definitely making a lot of drag range.

404a207caca7d3110ab4157b5fab0ac3.jpg



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TUCKnTRUCK said:
Take a look at AOA ref in the OP picture.

Maybe not back side, but definitely making a lot of drag range.

404a207caca7d3110ab4157b5fab0ac3.jpg



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Yeah, I mentioned the AOA and talked about gaining speed back in post #4. The main reason I don’t think they’re “back side” is that it appears to me that they had enough excess power to reach that altitude, at that AOA, to begin with.
 
SteveC said:
Yeah, I mentioned the AOA and talked about gaining speed back in post #4. The main reason I don’t think they’re “back side” is that it appears to me that they had enough excess power to reach that altitude, at that AOA, to begin with.
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I’m not positive they really had the thrust to do it, and that’s why it’s going so slow currently. I’m not familiar with the AG package in that - but I don’t see any trend vector or thrust vector. What does the green line just under the speed indicate?
 
Green line is speed trend, so slowing slightly. Notice the IVSI still shows a 100 fpm climb, even though altitude is captured. Certainly possible they were sacrificing the last of their speed to finish the climb and were now behind the curve. It was a factory production test flight so I'd guess they only needed to demonstrate getting to max certified altitude and wouldn't be staying there.

Looking back at the initial post, he did say they had 2 pax on board, and when I look at the performance charts (which show a Max weight of 15,500# at ISA or ISA-10 @ 51,000'), I'm more inclined to agree with y'all. We carry a lot of stock in our BOW, but we'd be around 14,400# with 2 pax and no fuel.

Maybe they fly a profile for that demonstration where they level off at a lower altitude (FL450-470?), accelerate to M0.80, finish the climb to FL510 followed by an immediate descent(?).
 
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Richman said:
That's a disappointing lack of detail.
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I checked Google maps, that entire episode would've happened sometime in 2013-14, assuming the same businesses are what's represented on the maps I can guarantee I had either a carne asada torta or a carne asda burrito. My road food choices were pretty simple, especially if I was alone.
 
knot4u said:
I checked Google maps, that entire episode would've happened sometime in 2013-14, assuming the same businesses are what's represented on the maps I can guarantee I had either a carne asada torta or a carne asda burrito. My road food choices were pretty simple, especially if I was alone.
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Sigh. I suppose that will have to do. Take better records, so the next time you introduce a sandwich related story, important nutritional facts can be relayed.
 
Richman said:
Sigh. I suppose that will have to do. Take better records, so the next time you introduce a sandwich related story, important nutritional facts can be relayed.
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I ate whatever it was in my work truck in the parking lot. Do you remember what you had for lunch on a random day from 8-10 years ago? I miss that truck, 3500 series GMC crew cab dually with a utility bed (cabinets) and a tommylift tailgate, we actually had two of them and a box truck. The only issue was trying to park them.
 
From what I hear, the G550's on up and the Globals can go up there and do it comfortably at the proper weights.
 
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