Too high for my comfort level...

I recall a few years ago, when I was working as a Mobile Service Tech on Honeywell engines, a long time member here had called us for an issue they were having with their 45 at altitude. We did what we could on the ground to try to gather and analyze the issue and found nothing. So we went flying, two crew (obviously) and three techs in the cabin. Apparently they spent a lot of time cruising at 49000 and that's when the issue would arise, so that's where we went. I don't recall it taking a long time and I think that's still the highest I've been. If remember correctly it was one of the engines overspeeding the fan enough that it was getting into the yellow. I don't remember what, if any, fix was applied. The ride down was fun because we weren't that far away from the airport. I imagine he'll be reading this thread and can correct my spotty memory if he chooses.
 
knot4u said:
I recall a few years ago, when I was working as a Mobile Service Tech on Honeywell engines, a long time member here had called us for an issue they were having with their 45 at altitude. We did what we could on the ground to try to gather and analyze the issue and found nothing. So we went flying, two crew (obviously) and three techs in the cabin. Apparently they spent a lot of time cruising at 49000 and that's when the issue would arise, so that's where we went. I don't recall it taking a long time and I think that's still the highest I've been. If remember correctly it was one of the engines overspeeding the fan enough that it was getting into the yellow. I don't remember what, if any, fix was applied. The ride down was fun because we weren't that far away from the airport. I imagine he'll be reading this thread and can correct my spotty memory if he chooses.
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Man, that’s way different than maintenance at the regionals. It baffles me to this day that “could not duplicate on the ground” was an acceptable corrective action in the logbook.

”Ok, lets go flying.”
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Man, that’s way different than maintenance at the regionals. It baffles me to this day that “could not duplicate on the ground” was an acceptable corrective action in the logbook.

”Ok, lets go flying.”
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That attitude would vary depending on the customer, some never wanted to fly, this customer wanted to go flying and they seemed trustworthy (you get a feel for "those" sort of operators and it certainly wasn't a clapped out 55 or Falcon 10) so it wasn't an issue. There were customers that I declined to go flying with just based on my own observations.
 
knot4u said:
That attitude would vary depending on the customer, some never wanted to fly, this customer wanted to go flying and they seemed trustworthy (you get a feel for "those" sort of operators and it certainly wasn't a clapped out 55 or Falcon 10) so it wasn't an issue. There were customers that I declined to go flying with just based on my own observations.
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Always got the warm and fuzzies when the wrenches didn't want to come flying with us.
 
mikecweb said:
Always got the warm and fuzzies when the wrenches didn't want to come flying with us.
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There's a lot of talk here in another thread about low time pilots and how some here wouldn't put their family on those airplanes. I've been doing this nonsense for a long time and I can count on one hand how many times I refused to go fly on an airplane I worked on. I can give you one example (oddly enough a LR35 in the San Diego area but not that airplane, airport or operator), I don't recall what their issue was but the whole thing seemed shady (731 guys will be familiar with MSP, it's a mix of a warranty and insurance policy on those engines, they were behind on their payments. I had to wait for money to be wired before I could start anything), it was a 135 pax/medflight LR35 in a t-hangar with no MX people I could find. I asked to see the engine logbooks and the owner had to drive home to get them, in the meantime the pilots showed up and I overheard them talking. Apparently the F/O had gotten back from SIC sim training the day before and he'd never actually flown the airplane and the captain had just been moved into the left seat. The only work I recall doing was tweaking the EECs a little bit (the airplane didn't have DEECs installed). We went out and ran it and it ran well so we taxied back in. I asked for the logbooks again so I could make my entries regarding the work I'd accomplished and the owner started saying that it needed to fly and I should go with it. I told him a flight was not needed and I'd rather make my logbook entries and head back to LA. He didn't like that idea, I suggested he could go fly with it and his logbooks would be ready when he got back, he didn't like that idea either. I excused myself from the conversation and called my boss and explained the situation and told him I wasn't comfortable and he backed me up. I finished my log entries, signed off my work and was leaving as the pilots taxied out. I stopped for a sandwich on the way out of town and saw the airplane returning without issue, YAY!. Sometimes the operator didn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies either, it works both ways.
 
knot4u said:
There's a lot of talk here in another thread about low time pilots and how some here wouldn't put their family on those airplanes. I've been doing this nonsense for a long time and I can count on one hand how many times I refused to go fly on an airplane I worked on. I can give you one example (oddly enough a LR35 in the San Diego area but not that airplane, airport or operator), I don't recall what their issue was but the whole thing seemed shady (731 guys will be familiar with MSP, it's a mix of a warranty and insurance policy on those engines, they were behind on their payments. I had to wait for money to be wired before I could start anything), it was a 135 pax/medflight LR35 in a t-hangar with no MX people I could find. I asked to see the engine logbooks and the owner had to drive home to get them, in the meantime the pilots showed up and I overheard them talking. Apparently the F/O had gotten back from SIC sim training the day before and he'd never actually flown the airplane and the captain had just been moved into the left seat. The only work I recall doing was tweaking the EECs a little bit (the airplane didn't have DEECs installed). We went out and ran it and it ran well so we taxied back in. I asked for the logbooks again so I could make my entries regarding the work I'd accomplished and the owner started saying that it needed to fly and I should go with it. I told him a flight was not needed and I'd rather make my logbook entries and head back to LA. He didn't like that idea, I suggested he could go fly with it and his logbooks would be ready when he got back, he didn't like that idea either. I excused myself from the conversation and called my boss and explained the situation and told him I wasn't comfortable and he backed me up. I finished my log entries, signed off my work and was leaving as the pilots taxied out. I stopped for a sandwich on the way out of town and saw the airplane returning without issue, YAY!. Sometimes the operator didn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies either, it works both ways.
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Oh I get it absolutely. I kinda laugh because every now and then at Atlas they would charter an airplane to get a crew in position. These guys would post on FB standing in front of some clapped out Falcon 10 like look at our private jet to work. Helllll no. I ain't getting on the cheapest charter atlas could find.
 
mikecweb said:
Oh I get it absolutely. I kinda laugh because every now and then at Atlas they would charter an airplane to get a crew in position. These guys would post on FB standing in front of some clapped out Falcon 10 like look at our private jet to work. Helllll no. I ain't getting on the cheapest charter atlas could find.
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even if it’s a good one, it’s like when the car that pics you up at the hotel is an actual limo. If I can’t drink in it, it doesn’t count.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My regional airline had a crew that did 410. They didn’t make it up there long. Last words on the CVR were “we’re gonna hit houses dude.”
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I heard Sumwalt give a presentation on the final analysis on this one. VERY interesting discussion about the investigation.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Man, that’s way different than maintenance at the regionals. It baffles me to this day that “could not duplicate on the ground” was an acceptable corrective action in the logbook.

”Ok, lets go flying.”
Click to expand...

When I was at PSA and on reserve, it was pretty normal to grab a plane out if the hangar and take a few mechanics up to work a problem. I remember taking one plane up to the mid 30s three times in one day so they could see of the airspeed issue on the standby isis was fixed (it wasn't). Pre 117 so I watched the sun come up on the first flight, and the sun set on the third one.

We did all kinds of mx request stuff then. I think the only one I turned down was a request to get it above 100 knots on the runway and then reject to see if the spoiler system was working... and night... in heavy rain.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Man, that’s way different than maintenance at the regionals. It baffles me to this day that
Click to expand...
mikecweb said:
Oh I get it absolutely. I kinda laugh because every now and then at Atlas they would charter an airplane to get a crew in position. These guys would post on FB standing in front of some clapped out Falcon 10 like look at our private jet to work. Helllll no. I ain't getting on the cheapest charter atlas could find.
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This reminds me of AMF turning one of their lears into a corporate capable bird after Check 21 disappeared. Nice in the back and the same ole clapped out freighter up front. The mullet jet...it was.
 
knot4u said:
There's a lot of talk here in another thread about low time pilots and how some here wouldn't put their family on those airplanes. I've been doing this nonsense for a long time and I can count on one hand how many times I refused to go fly on an airplane I worked on. I can give you one example (oddly enough a LR35 in the San Diego area but not that airplane, airport or operator), I don't recall what their issue was but the whole thing seemed shady (731 guys will be familiar with MSP, it's a mix of a warranty and insurance policy on those engines, they were behind on their payments. I had to wait for money to be wired before I could start anything), it was a 135 pax/medflight LR35 in a t-hangar with no MX people I could find. I asked to see the engine logbooks and the owner had to drive home to get them, in the meantime the pilots showed up and I overheard them talking. Apparently the F/O had gotten back from SIC sim training the day before and he'd never actually flown the airplane and the captain had just been moved into the left seat. The only work I recall doing was tweaking the EECs a little bit (the airplane didn't have DEECs installed). We went out and ran it and it ran well so we taxied back in. I asked for the logbooks again so I could make my entries regarding the work I'd accomplished and the owner started saying that it needed to fly and I should go with it. I told him a flight was not needed and I'd rather make my logbook entries and head back to LA. He didn't like that idea, I suggested he could go fly with it and his logbooks would be ready when he got back, he didn't like that idea either. I excused myself from the conversation and called my boss and explained the situation and told him I wasn't comfortable and he backed me up. I finished my log entries, signed off my work and was leaving as the pilots taxied out. I stopped for a sandwich on the way out of town and saw the airplane returning without issue, YAY!. Sometimes the operator didn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies either, it works both ways.
Click to expand...

Respect for making good choices, standing up to an owner, and procuring a sandwich instead.
 
knot4u said:
I recall a few years ago, when I was working as a Mobile Service Tech on Honeywell engines, a long time member here had called us for an issue they were having with their 45 at altitude. We did what we could on the ground to try to gather and analyze the issue and found nothing. So we went flying, two crew (obviously) and three techs in the cabin. Apparently they spent a lot of time cruising at 49000 and that's when the issue would arise, so that's where we went. I don't recall it taking a long time and I think that's still the highest I've been. If remember correctly it was one of the engines overspeeding the fan enough that it was getting into the yellow. I don't remember what, if any, fix was applied. The ride down was fun because we weren't that far away from the airport. I imagine he'll be reading this thread and can correct my spotty memory if he chooses.
Click to expand...
Our flight? Was it FL490? We usually did 430-450. Occasionally we’d get a block and step climb higher. But yes, we also took the opportunity to practice an emer decent since we were just west of Catalina trying to make LGB and the controllers said go for it. We made it. I thought it was a front fan vibration issue?? That could’ve been another time though.

I’ve also been to 510 twice in a 45. SoCal to TUS. Empty. All the stock removed. VFR both ways and the right amount of fuel. Super light. Both on 02. It can easily be done safely. It definitely wasn’t a “let’s 410 it brah”. It was holding .76/.77 no problem. We did it in blocks and stepped climbed as not to get slow. The 45/75 series is a very capable airframe. Hopefully It will be supported in the future. Even if it’s not Bombardeir. Still one of my favorites after 3k’ish hours in it.
5E702D33-3360-40A8-B158-02C080310B50.png

Edit to add: As you can see in the pic above as opposed to the OP pic. The OP pic was plowing through the air nose up and and the low speed tape is visible. The above pic is accelerating and no low speed tape. Technique.
 
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PositionAndHold said:
Our flight? Was it FL490? We usually did 430-450. Occasionally we’d get a block and step climb higher. But yes, we also took the opportunity to practice an emer decent since we were just west of Catalina trying to make LGB and the controllers said go for it. We made it. I thought it was a front fan vibration issue?? That could’ve been another time though.

I’ve also been to 510 twice in a 45. SoCal to TUS. Empty. All the stock removed. VFR both ways and the right amount of fuel. Super light. Both on 02. It can easily be done safely. It definitely wasn’t a “let’s 410 it brah”. It was holding .76/.77 no problem. We did it in blocks and stepped climbed as not to get slow. The 45/75 series is a very capable airframe. Hopefully It will be supported in the future. Even if it’s not Bombardeir. Still one of my favorites after 3k’ish hours in it. View attachment 62607
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I’m still very new to the airplane and absolutely love it so far
 
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