Today Show - Automation Safer, but pilots confused when things go wrong

I hand-flew an MD-90 from SAN to SLC, FMS INOP, autopilot INOP and autothrottles INOP just VOR's and airways and, while easily doable, even fun. But would I want to do it for three more legs that day? Bitch, please. Nope. :)
 
Derg said:
I hand-flew an MD-90 from SAN to SLC, FMS INOP, autopilot INOP and autothrottles INOP just VOR's and airways and, while easily doable, even fun. But would I want to do it for three more legs that day? Bitch, please. Nope. :)
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In those situations you revert back to DC-9 style equipment; radar vector equipped.
 
Derg said:
I hand-flew an MD-90 from SAN to SLC, FMS INOP, autopilot INOP and autothrottles INOP just VOR's and airways and, while easily doable, even fun. But would I want to do it for three more legs that day? Bitch, please. Nope. :)
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That is the beauty of the MD-90 it can do everything from full automation with LNAV/VNAV down to your back to basics DC-9 style without any automation. Very difficult, if not impossible to downgrade that much in newer highly automated aircraft.


TP
 
HA...reminds me of the time I was an FO coming out of DFW. We get to departure and they say "fly heading 300 to join the Ranger 360 for weather". I was trying to remember how to put it in the box and the Capt just switched over to the VOR/LOC mode, dials in 360 in the window, and heading selected to follow the radial. I think it would have taken me until TOC to figure out how to do it in the box.
 
DE727UPS said:
HA...reminds me of the time I was an FO coming out of DFW. We get to departure and they say "fly heading 300 to join the Ranger 360 for weather". I was trying to remember how to put it in the box and the Capt just switched over to the VOR/LOC mode, dials in 360 in the window, and heading selected to follow the radial. I think it would have taken me until TOC to figure out how to do it in the box.
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They spent days teaching us this "Manual Dry Clean" acronym for doing just that, but I haven't been asked to join a radial in years.
 
I may or may not have had a botched FMS data load prior to a KRIC-MYNN trip. Botched it so bad that we couldn't even revert to the outdated database and use that with coordinate cross checks. Went in, refiled as /Q, and went on our merry way. ATC couldn't ever quite comprehend why we couldn't go direct to fixes or VORs 300 miles away.
 
DE727UPS said:
HA...reminds me of the time I was an FO coming out of DFW. We get to departure and they say "fly heading 300 to join the Ranger 360 for weather". I was trying to remember how to put it in the box and the Capt just switched over to the VOR/LOC mode, dials in 360 in the window, and heading selected to follow the radial. I think it would have taken me until TOC to figure out how to do it in the box.
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A prime example of using the right mode for the job.

"American umpty-ump, fly heading umpty ump—"
HDG SELECT umpty ump
"— intercept the Ranger umpty ump radial"
Tune and ID the Ranger umpty ump and display it.

I hate messing around with our rudimentary FMS down near the ground. We have a pseudo VORTAC function, for instance, but when you're given "heading (__) join the (___) radial" and you aren't expecting it, it's easier to just spin the knobs, tune it and fly it while the other guy types 80 words per minute.

Incidentally, when I was at Eagle, a good number of people would fly radar vectors on the HDG SEL page of the FMS instead of just spinning the bug around. (This screwed a bunch of people up - 'HDG SEL' instead of 'PROC HDG' being displayed on the FMC head made more than one EMB 145 copy a phone number on the next departure.) Sure, you can stay in (L)NAV that way, but why?
 
I "fly" a Boeing and most pilots at this company hand fly for about 2 minutes per flight, if that. Probably less if you don't count the takeoff and landing rolls. Most of the time it's just two/three/four of us sitting there watching the autopilot fly. I haven't "flown" a leg in about 2 months, ha. I use the term "flown" loosely - I'm just mashing buttons on an autopilot and cdu 99.99% of the time. I'm seriously considering buying a 25% share in a 172 to get my fun fix back in. This type of job makes you a total wuss (no offense to my comrades). I generally start to freak out if I'm expected to do anything more than a walk around and start coffee.
 
A couple years ago it was "GET THE AUTOPILOT ON!"

(lots of hilarity ensued)

Now it's "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Turn off the automation and make sure you fly every once in a while because y'all be screwing up all kinna stuff's"

Another reason why accountants and fresh business school grads should be no part of the operations equation.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Incidentally, when I was at Eagle, a good number of people would fly radar vectors on the HDG SEL page of the FMS instead of just spinning the bug around. (This screwed a bunch of people up - 'HDG SEL' instead of 'PROC HDG' being displayed on the FMC head made more than one EMB 145 copy a phone number on the next departure.) Sure, you can stay in (L)NAV that way, but why?
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Seems like a lot more work than it's worth.
 
Alchemy said:
I "fly" a Boeing and most pilots at this company hand fly for about 2 minutes per flight, if that. Probably less if you don't count the takeoff and landing rolls. Most of the time it's just two/three/four of us sitting there watching the autopilot fly. I haven't "flown" a leg in about 2 months, ha. I use the term "flown" loosely - I'm just mashing buttons on an autopilot and cdu 99.99% of the time. I'm seriously considering buying a 25% share in a 172 to get my fun fix back in. This type of job makes you a total wuss (no offense to my comrades). I generally start to freak out if I'm expected to do anything more than a walk around and start coffee.
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Well...I mean you look who you guys have training you...
 
Derg said:
A couple years ago it was "GET THE AUTOPILOT ON!"

(lots of hilarity ensued)

Now it's "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Turn off the automation and make sure you fly every once in a while because y'all be screwing up all kinna stuff's".
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I had a Kathleen Maddigan moment when we were told the same thing where I work... Was thinking " why don't we hand fly more often? Because *expletive* you told us..."
 
Derg said:
A couple years ago it was "GET THE AUTOPILOT ON!"

(lots of hilarity ensued)

Now it's "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Turn off the automation and make sure you fly every once in a while because y'all be screwing up all kinna stuff's"

Another reason why accountants and fresh business school grads should be no part of the operations equation.
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At the BlueJuice factory they want us to hand fly more often and turn off the auto thrust now.
I was like, what, you trust me now to fly the plane.
 
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