To A300Capt and Doug Taylor


Well-Known Member
Yo what's up everyone. First I would like to say thanks to eveyone that responded to my post. The reason that this post is directed to A300 Capt and Doug Taylor is because I figrured maybe they could answer my question better since they operate in a minimum of a 2-man crew evironment. Gentlemen, to give a short synopis of this whole issue, I am an intern at XYZ(name witheld for professional reasons), and my job description has me doing gopher work around the office along with being a co-pilot in a King Air C90B and and Aero Commander. I am not disputing the fact the airplanes are certificated for single pilot. Now, there operations manual requires that on the aircraft on all flights, there is a PIC(obviously) and a SIC. We all know what PIC does but the responsibilites of the SIC are to perform any task requested by the PIC, which includes physically controlling the aircraft. What I have done is logged all of the time I have recieved as SIC. I am not PIC on any of the flight and I am not going to fool anyone in thinking that I have been. The reason this came up was because a friend of mine told me to log time I was flying as PIC. But the problem is, I am NOT PIC. So I am not going to document time as PIC when I am not "actual" or "acting" PIC. I will document the time when I am perfoming the duties of SIC because that is what I am doing. I told my friend 3 weeks ago what you all say several days ago about, loggin PIC time and then a potential employer looking at that and saying, "Well, you were PIC, let's go crank mine up and see what you can do!!!" First of all to me, if I log SIC, I can explain what I did, and let them know up front, I have experience, whatever I am applying for may not be completely knew, and that I have documented proof of my time working in a crew(as SIC, with documented definition of position), even though I will need additional training so that I can eventually become a PIC. I feel completely obligated to be upfornt about what I log. "I see you logged SIC, why? Well, because while I was at XYZ, I performed these as it is stated here." But I would love to hear you all opinions please, feel free to be as open as you can...
Nothing says you have to log PIC OR SIC.

Technically, however if you are under part 91 and are the sole manipulator of the controls then, yes, you can LOG PIC for the duration of which you were the sole manipulator. Logging PIC and acting as PIC are two, seperate things. And it is because they are two seperate things that there is always so much confusion regarding these type of questions.

However, if logging PIC or SIC makes you uncomfortable you could simply log the time as total time and leave the SIC/PIC columns blank. You flew the time, you weren't acting PIC and you felt it didn't fall under SIC so just put the time in XC (if that applies) and TT and any other applicable columns.

I figrured maybe they could answer my question better since they operate in a minimum of a 2-man crew evironment.

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The aircraft I fly and the one Doug flies requires 2 fully trained pilots per the company AOM, FOM and the fact that the aircraft was certified to be operated by a two-person crew. There is a very clear definition of who the PIC and SIC is in the operation of the type of aircraft we fly.

Your situation is a little different. Your airplane doesn't require 2 pilots. It was certifed single pilot. If your company requires 2 pilots to operate the aircraft because of Op Specs or insurance requirements, then what are the FAA, insurance and/or specific training requirements to operate as SIC. It should be clearly spelled out in your company's OP Specs or operating certificate. Do you meet those minimums?

Have you received any specific training on the King Air you're flying? Passed a company or FAA SIC checkride? Do you meet the insurance requirements to operate the aircraft "for hire" as SIC? Are you being paid to occupy the right seat or fly as SIC? A SIC is generally a fully functioning crewmember. Someone who can easily takeover in the event something happens to the PIC.

Why not ask the local FAA on their opinion. Give AOPA a call, if you're a member, and get some interpretation from them on the subject. They have a pretty good legal dept.

I'm not sure if it's still the case, since it's been a while for me, but the FAA use to audit your logbook(s) before signing you off for the ATP written. If they still do that then they might question your logging King Air time as PIC or SIC.

BTW, there's probably nobody here that wouldn't have jump at the opportunity to get some loggable King Air time when they first started out. It's an appealing opportunity for a low time pilot trying to gain experience while time building. Just make sure it's legit or it's all for not.